Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Daft comment. I usually try and avoid adverts so self evidently I can?t comment on the quality or otherwise of a particular advert. But that?s not what I?m doing is it? I?m commenting on the suggestion that Pochin claims to be offended by there being too many black or Asian people in adverts, because that is a fundamentally racist comment.

If I remember correctly - and I?ll apologise if I?m wrong - you have previously suggested that you too are offended by there being too many non white faces amongst the TV media, so it comes as no great surprise that you adopt the stance you do.

My stance is I?d like a grown up conversation on the subject which based on last time excludes Swale and yourself so if Sith wants one as indicated that?s great. I must warn you though, because I know it triggers you, I have some personal interest here

[SithHappens]

For me the it's two different debates.

I am not a fan of so called quotas. I am of the belief its best person for the job. I still believe, even today more black or Asian people are likely to be overlooked for jobs than white people. This is anecdotal (sorry andy) but it is my belief.

The debate over Pochin is different because all she has done is taken a subject which is one that may have valid reasons for discussion and use it as a platform for her racism.

For me i cant see how anyone can defend her comments or even argue they aren't racist, but I can accept the underlying topic is one that at least is worthy of discussion, even if I dont personally have a problem with it.

[Andy_Faber]

For me the it's two different debates.

I am not a fan of so called quotas. I am of the belief its best person for the job. I still believe, even today more black or Asian people are likely to be overlooked for jobs than white people. This is anecdotal (sorry andy) but it is my belief.

The debate over Pochin is different because all she has done is taken a subject which is one that may have valid reasons for discussion and use it as a platform for her racism.

For me i cant see how anyone can defend her comments or even argue they aren't racist, but I can accept the underlying topic is one that at least is worthy of discussion, even if I dont personally have a problem with it.

It might be a short discussion because I agree with all of that!

I’ve come across and been victim of discrimination throughout my business career BUT it’s been by so many ‘factions’ on so many ‘factions’, waaaay more than just white v black, I’ve never been sure what the response should be other than to keep my own standards up.

[ramAnag]

My stance is I?d like a grown up conversation on the subject which based on last time excludes Swale and yourself so if Sith wants one as indicated that?s great. I must warn you though, because I know it triggers you, I have some personal interest here

Lol. So you want a ‘grown up conversation’ but only with specific people/person. Brilliant…no contradiction there.

No idea what the rest means, why you’re warning me about your ‘personal interest’ or claiming elsewhere to have been a victim of discrimination throughout your business life. If you want to explain what all that means via grown up discussion, that’s fine, no problem. If you don’t feel you can, that’s your choice.

[SithHappens]

It might be a short discussion because I agree with all of that!

I’ve come across and been victim of discrimination throughout my business career BUT it’s been by so many ‘factions’ on so many ‘factions’, waaaay more than just white v black, I’ve never been sure what the response should be other than to keep my own standards up.

I'm sorry you've had to experience that. I've been that position and it's not a good place to be as it's hard to find allies when that's happening (in my experience)

[Andy_Faber]

I'm sorry you've had to experience that. I've been that position and it's not a good place to be as it's hard to find allies when that's happening (in my experience)

Thanks, and yes that’s right

[SithHappens]

One point about her claim about disproportionate representation of minorities on TV. She is bang on.

Reform with just 5 MPs are an excellent example of minorities being disproportionately represented on TV

[Andy_Faber]

One point about her claim about disproportionate representation of minorities on TV. She is bang on.

Reform with just 5 MPs are an excellent example of minorities being disproportionately represented on TV

Yes you’re right

And if if you’re right, you must agree (in her observation if not her delivery) that’s she’s right.

Interesting that the analysis I directed GP to yesterday seems to be being repeated extensively by way of reinforcing the point

[ramAnag]

One point about her claim about disproportionate representation of minorities on TV. She is bang on.

Reform with just 5 MPs are an excellent example of minorities being disproportionately represented on TV

It’s funny the things people of a certain persuasion - Ms. Pochin and Co. spring to mind - get hung up about. Yet they seem reluctant to look at the other side of the ‘quota’ coin.
Some of my favourite things are, in no particular order, attending live sport, live theatre, live music events, walking in rural Derbyshire and country pubs.
Next time any of us are at Pride Park I suggest you have a look around at the crowd. Think I’d guarantee it’ll be around 90% white. The same was true at the Test Match I went to at Old Trafford last August and I imagine the international rugby match crowd I’ll be part of at Everton next Saturday will be much the same.
A couple of weeks ago I attended Nottingham Playhouse and, apart from a smattering of Asian pupils from Oakham public school, the audience was very largely white, while last Saturday evening my wife and I ran a bar at a Live ‘n Local gig. The star of the show was an excellent black violinist from Minnesota who fronted an equally excellent folk rock fusion band. The audience was universally white.
The same is invariably true when I’m out walking and calling in at a country pub and if all those are a tad too anecdotal, it’s a fact that, of all our representatives in Parliament, just 14% are non white.
Just sayin’…but maybe food for thought for those with open minds.

[Andy_Faber]

It’s funny the things people of a certain persuasion - Ms. Pochin and Co. spring to mind - get hung up about. Yet they seem reluctant to look at the other side of the ‘quota’ coin.
Some of my favourite things are, in no particular order, attending live sport, live theatre, live music events, walking in rural Derbyshire and country pubs.
Next time any of us are at Pride Park I suggest you have a look around at the crowd. Think I’d guarantee it’ll be around 90% white. The same was true at the Test Match I went to at Old Trafford last August and I imagine the international rugby match crowd I’ll be part of at Everton next Saturday will be much the same.
A couple of weeks ago I attended Nottingham Playhouse and, apart from a smattering of Asian pupils from Oakham public school, the audience was very largely white, while last Saturday evening my wife and I ran a bar at a Live ‘n Local gig. The star of the show was an excellent black violinist from Minnesota who fronted an equally excellent folk rock fusion band. The audience was universally white.
The same is invariably true when I’m out walking and calling in at a country pub and if all those are a tad too anecdotal, it’s a fact that, of all our representatives in Parliament, just 14% are non white.
Just sayin’…but maybe food for thought for those with open minds.

I think that’s helping to make the point that the vast majority of those ‘in the conversation’ yesterday were making (although not Pochin herself) and that is that the real life demographic experienced by the vast majority of the population isn’t reflected on broadcast media. There’s various (published and anecdotal) lines of thought on why that is, regrettably most of which are met with ‘you’re racist’.

[ramAnag]

I think that?’s helping to make the point that the vast majority of those ?‘in the conversation?’ yesterday were making (although not Pochin herself) and that is that the real life demographic experienced by the vast majority of the population isn?’t reflected on broadcast media. There?’s various (published and anecdotal) lines of thought on why that is, regrettably most of which are met with ?‘you?’re racist?’.

You’d have to explain that a little further, but Pochin’s comments were surely undeniably racist, on the basis that she was making a negative and derisory comment based entirely on ethnicity and colour. That isn’t responsible behaviour on the part of an MP imo.

[Andy_Faber]

Trying to see both sides, you actually missed a group out, Pride Parks matchday staff, almost all black, who appear to do a great job (even when some old tw@t asked for a Marathon on Saturday, oops). Not sure how many fans even notice them, I always say thanks to whoever?s at the bottom of our stairs as I leave (white lady on sat as it happens)

[Geoff Parkstone]

Rather than listen to what might turn into the usual entrenched positions being excavated here, type ‘ Are non-whites over represented in uk tv adverts’ into Deepseek, which has no bias that I’m aware of

It’s funny the things people of a certain persuasion - Ms. Pochin and Co. spring to mind - get hung up about. Yet they seem reluctant to look at the other side of the ‘quota’ coin.
Some of my favourite things are, in no particular order, attending live sport, live theatre, live music events, walking in rural Derbyshire and country pubs.
Next time any of us are at Pride Park I suggest you have a look around at the crowd. Think I’d guarantee it’ll be around 90% white. The same was true at the Test Match I went to at Old Trafford last August and I imagine the international rugby match crowd I’ll be part of at Everton next Saturday will be much the same.
A couple of weeks ago I attended Nottingham Playhouse and, apart from a smattering of Asian pupils from Oakham public school, the audience was very largely white, while last Saturday evening my wife and I ran a bar at a Live ‘n Local gig. The star of the show was an excellent black violinist from Minnesota who fronted an equally excellent folk rock fusion band. The audience was universally white.
The same is invariably true when I’m out walking and calling in at a country pub and if all those are a tad too anecdotal, it’s a fact that, of all our representatives in Parliament, just 14% are non white.
Just sayin’…but maybe food for thought for those with open minds.

Interesting observations ...from a well heeled middle class rural dwelling retiree, to I admit another.

So why do we think there is an under representation of diverse groups sharing your (our) passions. Let's think and start with (1) age (2) capacity to pay. I believe it's true that the "elderly" are less diverse. Secondly the activities you mention require significant financial outlay - 100 quid plus just for a test match ticket, let alone getting there, food and the odd bevy.

Not to say that black or Asian folk can't all afford these pursuits but as they are usually in younger age demographics they have different financial priorities - family, mortgage, career etc and arguably less disposable income as a result.

As for the walks/country pub argument, that's ridiculous. That will be more down to the places people live. Ethnic minorities are, like it or not, more urban dwelling and are therefore more likely to be into urban pursuits than a bracing moorland stroll in the rain and 80 mph wind!

But to reverse your argument, I'm a huge fan of gangsta rap drill and hip hop and, **** me, you hardly see a white face at those concerts. So what does that say about the overall population: must I be living in a 98% black country. No. I love bhangra dancing but have spent years looking for a 65 year old white dance partner to join me but there always loads of brown faces there. I must be in Calcutta.

The country as a whole might be 15% (???) non white but that doesn't mean that the same mix have to have the same interests or attend similar events.

[SithHappens]

Is Sarah Pochin right that there is a disproportionate amount of Black and Asian people on TV? Possibly. Is she right to be furious about it?

That I'm not sure.

I think it's ok to be angry that a certain party is gaining a disproportionate amount of airtime. But to be bothered because my cornflakes are advertised by a black person instead of white just does seem racist to me.

Now if the narrative is that white people are being deliberately overlooked for tv roles so that quotas are met then it's a different discussion, no one had claimed that ( as far as I know), but if they are then yes I'd agree this is wrong.

As I said yesterday, when debating it's understanding what we are actually debating about.

[Andy_Faber]

Is Sarah Pochin right that there is a disproportionate amount of Black and Asian people on TV? Possibly. Is she right to be furious about it?

That I'm not sure.

I think it's ok to be angry that a certain party is gaining a disproportionate amount of airtime. But to be bothered because my cornflakes are advertised by a black person instead of white just does seem racist to me.

Now if the narrative is that white people are being deliberately overlooked for tv roles so that quotas are met then it's a different discussion, no one had claimed that ( as far as I know), but if they are then yes I'd agree this is wrong.

As I said yesterday, when debating it's understanding what we are actually debating about.

The BBC have a published quota which I believe exceeds the national demographic I believe, I’ll stand corrected on that

The ‘debate’ as I read it, and the discussion has broadened to encompass other over represented minorities since social media helped let the genie out of the bottle, is that ‘we’ (the public) are being conditioned into believing that ‘that’s how the world is now’, despite the real world evidence. The debate I’ve seen isn’t that it’s happening, it’s why. Just my observation, not really even my opinion but worthy of discussion