Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

I'm not surprised, it is from what I've read a constituency with a large number of voters who are left leaning, they won;'t vote reform, and will not want to vote labour whilst they are leaning so far to the right and generally appearing unable to run a piss up in a brewery.

Denton and Gorton are quite different Swale. I used to play rugby years ago for nearby Ashton and we played against Burnage and Old Aldwinians (Audenshaw) which are both within this new constituency so it’s an area I’m relatively familiar with. My sister in law also used to live in Denton which is largely white and, for want of a much better term, upper working class, while Gorton used to be a place to avoid years ago but seems to have a better reputation these days along with a much higher Muslim population.
As someone who remembers the ‘flash and circle’ emblem of the BUF springing up around Manchester in the sixties I very much hope that decency prevails next Thursday and Mancunians show Farage the door marked exit.

[Andy_Faber]

I've two questions, who do you term "green" extremists?

What in particular about Polanski makes you think he is more of a menace than Farage?

Its’difficult to understand the point you make without more detail and examples.

An example of ‘Green’ extremists would be elements of Palestine action. I’m not suggesting direct affiliation but independant analysis states that they are predominantly ‘green leaning’.

I believe Polanski’s views on gender are a danger to all females.

On the latter, and somewhat related, when we discussed whether people born male should be allowed to compete in female sports we small cohort almost all agreed no, apart from yourself who stated you hadn’t really considered it much (I paraphrase)

[Ram Pant]

Ah but then the real "elite" who have the power and influence would be exposed and made to answer for their actions!

The DoJ has said that going after them all would "bring the entire system down". Yes please. Won't happen though...

[Ram Pant]

Mm not really, Yaxley-Lennon is someone who has used a range of different names, for dubious reasons, his real persona and the background to it, is highly relevant when judging what he says or does. Which is why I call him by his original name.

I have no issue with a person changing their name generally.

As I posted earlier, his correct nickname at the moment should be downgraded to Tommy 7 names as that's the number he's currently at.

[Andy_Faber]

The DoJ has said that going after them all would "bring the entire system down". Yes please. Won't happen though...

And of course it should, as it should grooming gangs, as it should any other collective crimes (check out the woman in France who was drugged and ‘shared around’ by her husband). Genuinely not sure there’s enough resource to do it all.

However, even powerful people leave digital footprints, so there’s hope

[ramAnag]

As I posted earlier, his correct nickname at the moment should be downgraded to Tommy 7 names as that's the number he's currently at.

Went to see ‘The Beekeeper of Aleppo’ yesterday at Nottingham Playhouse. Top quality production of the story of Syrian refugees struggling to get across Europe to the UK about a decade ago and highly recommended.
Couldn’t help thinking that the likes of ‘Robinson’, Farage and anyone of a similar mindset, should be forced to watch it.
Might just act as an eye opener…probably not though, so deep is their prejudice.

[Trickytreesreds]

Reasons the greens are dangerous
1. Open borders. Self explanatory. Criminals, terrorists, *** pests , plus an over whelming weight thrown on the economy and services
2. Their bonkers drugs policy of free drugs( heroin, cocaine, crack, pcp) for all. Does anyone actually envisage the world, with these smack heads behind the wheel, in pubs and clubs, the shopping centre etc? Believe me, their inhibitions and natural restraints are gone. We have a job keeping kids off drugs now, but a political party wants to make it easier?
3. Housing- banning all landlords and rental. So without social housing to fall back on, the rental market vanishes as they sell up and the house market prices soar and make the problem of masses on the streets. Considering the amount on benefits WTF do they think is going to happen?
4. Trans- to have the rights of using women?s toilets, changing rooms and sport. This is misogyny in its finest, crucifying a whole gender to pacify a few frock wearing men.
5. No nukes, NATO and defence taking a back seat. I seriously ask myself if these morons actually watch the news.
6. An internal whistle blower has reported to the police that this group is laced with Islamic radicals, with an anti Jew agenda. They are firm backers of Palestine Action.
7. Tax, think it?s high now, Polanski has said it?s coming like a train
8. Net zero madness will go into over drive

I suggest folks go on YouTube and watch the Green Party Gorton candidate blame the Manchester bombing not on an Islamic nutter, but the right pushing him into it. Ignoring the fact he was born here, is one of the lovely Muslim neighbours she defends , and wants the whole topic dropped in case it offends anyone.

Vote for these, you need a labotomy. Remember, this is sweet talk time, where they tell you things to get you on board. It?s quite scary to actually think what they are not telling you, when you measure it against stuff that they are.

[Ram Pant]

Yet another bunch of coconuts I wouldn't vote for.

[ramAnag]

Reasons the greens are dangerous
1. Open borders. Self explanatory. Criminals, terrorists, *** pests , plus an over whelming weight thrown on the economy and services
2. Their bonkers drugs policy of free drugs( heroin, cocaine, crack, pcp) for all. Does anyone actually envisage the world, with these smack heads behind the wheel, in pubs and clubs, the shopping centre etc? Believe me, their inhibitions and natural restraints are gone. We have a job keeping kids off drugs now, but a political party wants to make it easier?
3. Housing- banning all landlords and rental. So without social housing to fall back on, the rental market vanishes as they sell up and the house market prices soar and make the problem of masses on the streets. Considering the amount on benefits WTF do they think is going to happen?
4. Trans- to have the rights of using women?s toilets, changing rooms and sport. This is misogyny in its finest, crucifying a whole gender to pacify a few frock wearing men.
5. No nukes, NATO and defence taking a back seat. I seriously ask myself if these morons actually watch the news.
6. An internal whistle blower has reported to the police that this group is laced with Islamic radicals, with an anti Jew agenda. They are firm backers of Palestine Action.
7. Tax, think it?s high now, Polanski has said it?s coming like a train
8. Net zero madness will go into over drive

I suggest folks go on YouTube and watch the Green Party Gorton candidate blame the Manchester bombing not on an Islamic nutter, but the right pushing him into it. Ignoring the fact he was born here, is one of the lovely Muslim neighbours she defends , and wants the whole topic dropped in case it offends anyone.

Vote for these, you need a labotomy. Remember, this is sweet talk time, where they tell you things to get you on board. It?s quite scary to actually think what they are not telling you, when you measure it against stuff that they are.

Talk about a knee jerk reaction.

I’m not a supporter of the Greens, although they would certainly have my vote next Thursday if I thought it was the likeliest way to keep the hate mongers out of power.

Having said that, SOME of your criticisms are just unfounded.

1. Migrants are no more synonymous with criminals, terrorists and s*x pests than are our own ‘home reared’ wrongdoers.
2. There are already smack heads etc behind the wheel and in pubs, clubs and shopping centres. Polanski just seems to be advocating a public health driven policy on drug use rather than the existing one which, by your own definition of the current situation, has obviously failed. He may be right, he may be wrong but at least he’s offered an alternative to the current failed system.
3. There is a shortage of council housing in this country and a surfeit of privately owned rental property. I wouldn’t seek to discredit all private landlords but, from what we see on TV, there sure as hell are some bad and unscrupulous ones. IF this is a way of providing more responsible and less profit driven property ownership then is that a bad thing?
4. Another one that needs thinking through, but I don’t think anyone is ‘crucifying a whole gender’.
5. Pass. Inclined to agree but don’t know enough about their policy.
6. What is wrong with supporting Palestine Action? A question which seems to have been asked in rather higher places than this forum in the last week.
7. Another grown up conversation needed. I don’t know how we can possibly have the services we demand without paying for them via higher taxes. Apparently you and NF do. Feel free to share.
8. Have you seen the weather recently? Again I don’t know if this is just a horribly cold and wet winter that seems to have gone on for ever, but I do know that there seem to be more weather related catastrophes these days than ever before. Seems to me that any ‘madness’ lies with the climate change deniers.

In the words of Bob Dylan, ‘Don’t criticise what you can’t understand.’

[Andy_Faber]

3. There is a shortage of council housing in this country and a surfeit of privately owned rental property. I wouldn’t seek to discredit all private landlords but, from what we see on TV, there sure as hell are some bad and unscrupulous ones. IF this is a way of providing more responsible and less profit driven property ownership then is that a bad thing?


In the words of Bob Dylan, ‘Don’t criticise what you can’t understand.’

Trying to keep clear of excessive conflict, and concentrating just on the above:

Requiring private landlords to sell off their properties would be no big deal to me, there might be a small drop in price achieved due to more housing ‘stock’ being available and I’d actually be better off living off the sale income given my life expectancy (0-25 years so let’s say 12.5 - putting it in that way I think I SHOULD sell).

So I can be fairly objective about it

So, even at a slightly reduced price, and even accounting for trickle-down, most properties would STILL be out of the reach most of those who currently rent - two obvious reasons, 1. they can’t (for various reasons, some down to them some not) raise the deposit and 2. They can’t afford the mortgage repayments - remember rents are subsidised where necessary, mortgages aren’t.

I’ve just checked the definition of ‘surfeit’ and it’s ‘an excess of’ - clearly not, there is a shortage of rental property generally and successive HMGs of all colours failure to keep up has only been redeemed, thank God, by the private sector. If current and future administrations pulled their bloody finger out and actually built some houses that would be a good idea, they don’t seem good at it though

So The Greens are attacking a real problem from completely the wrong direction. IMO

[ramAnag]

Trying to keep clear of excessive conflict, and concentrating just on the above:

Requiring private landlords to sell off their properties would be no big deal to me, there might be a small drop in price achieved due to more housing ?‘stock?’ being available and I?’d actually be better off living off the sale income given my life expectancy (0-25 years so let?’s say 12.5 - putting it in that way I think I SHOULD sell).

So I can be fairly objective about it

So, even at a slightly reduced price, and even accounting for trickle-down, most properties would STILL be out of the reach most of those who currently rent - two obvious reasons, 1. they can?’t (for various reasons, some down to them some not) raise the deposit and 2. They can?’t afford the mortgage repayments - remember rents are subsidised where necessary, mortgages aren?’t.

I?’ve just checked the definition of ?‘surfeit?’ and it?’s ?‘an excess of?’ - clearly not, there is a shortage of rental property generally and successive HMGs of all colours failure to keep up has only been redeemed, thank God, by the private sector. If current and future administrations pulled their bloody finger out and actually built some houses that would be a good idea, they don?’t seem good at it though

So The Greens are attacking a real problem from completely the wrong direction. IMO

I stand corrected by someone who knows far more about the property rental market than I do.

My general point, probably poorly made, was that we need more socially responsible rental property ownership. That is absolutely no slight on you and I too, in my relatively brief spell as a landlord, was complimented on my standards and fairness, but I certainly get the impression, there are plenty that aren’t.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t in search of ‘conflict’ and as regards house building, maybe the fact that (I think) about 70% of the land in this country is owned by just 1% of the population is not entirely unconnected.

[Andy_Faber]

Just to be clear, I wasn’t in search of ‘conflict’ and as regards house building, maybe the fact that (I think) about 70% of the land in this country is owned by just 1% of the population is not entirely unconnected.

I knew you weren’t, and yes the distribution is skewed, I was focussing on my disagreement with Green policy in that area.

A couple of other things that attracts tenants, I guess this is irrelevant of the Green thing but interesting to me and maybe enlightening - even folk who can afford to buy choose to rent, two reasons I’ve come across a lot - being ‘unsettled souls’ who feel the need to change environment frequently, and being to inept or too lazy to do maintenance jobs - tenants have basically an FOC odd job main on hand (I always err on the side of doing the work and paying for it even when not strictly down to me, I know other landlords do the same)

[SithHappens]

Greens still odds on to win in Gorton. I wouldn't choose to vote for them and don't consider Polanski a serious option, but i would still choose them over Reform.

I can't quite work out whats causing the uplift in their popularity.

[SithHappens]

Talk about a knee jerk reaction.

I’m not a supporter of the Greens, although they would certainly have my vote next Thursday if I thought it was the likeliest way to keep the hate mongers out of power.

Having said that, SOME of your criticisms are just unfounded.

1. Migrants are no more synonymous with criminals, terrorists and s*x pests than are our own ‘home reared’ wrongdoers.
2. There are already smack heads etc behind the wheel and in pubs, clubs and shopping centres. Polanski just seems to be advocating a public health driven policy on drug use rather than the existing one which, by your own definition of the current situation, has obviously failed. He may be right, he may be wrong but at least he’s offered an alternative to the current failed system.
3. There is a shortage of council housing in this country and a surfeit of privately owned rental property. I wouldn’t seek to discredit all private landlords but, from what we see on TV, there sure as hell are some bad and unscrupulous ones. IF this is a way of providing more responsible and less profit driven property ownership then is that a bad thing?
4. Another one that needs thinking through, but I don’t think anyone is ‘crucifying a whole gender’.
5. Pass. Inclined to agree but don’t know enough about their policy.
6. What is wrong with supporting Palestine Action? A question which seems to have been asked in rather higher places than this forum in the last week.
7. Another grown up conversation needed. I don’t know how we can possibly have the services we demand without paying for them via higher taxes. Apparently you and NF do. Feel free to share.
8. Have you seen the weather recently? Again I don’t know if this is just a horribly cold and wet winter that seems to have gone on for ever, but I do know that there seem to be more weather related catastrophes these days than ever before. Seems to me that any ‘madness’ lies with the climate change deniers.

In the words of Bob Dylan, ‘Don’t criticise what you can’t understand.’

im a private landlord and consider myself a good one. Our tenants have a bargain, they are paying around 200 under thr going rate, but im ok with that as im not after short term profit but of course my long term goal is to have a property I can sell and supplement my pension.

I think if they targeted landlords it would be those with multiple properties but who knows.

Ours must be happy, they have been in it 8 years, forcing me to sell would put them out of what is really their home.

[ramAnag]

Greens still odds on to win in Gorton. I wouldn't choose to vote for them and don't consider Polanski a serious option, but i would still choose them over Reform.

I can't quite work out whats causing the uplift in their popularity.

I suspect it’s because, as I think Swale implied, it should normally be a safe Labour seat but traditional Labour voters are expressing their dissatisfaction and moving to the Greens.
Voting Tory would just be a wasted vote. The LibDems seem to have lost their way and voting for Goodwin/Farage should be anathema to any original Labour voter.