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O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

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  • Originally posted by Lullapie View Post
    I also learned about the Belgian Congo at school. It was the only colony Belgian had in Africa as Leopold was late to the party. The Belgians were recognised as the cruelest of all the colonisers and with all authoritarianism regimes, the way to control the populous is to either under-educate them or educate them with propaganda.

    Amin is the common example of the left of how the British installed a dictator, who was cruel and merciless. However, I prefer to use Mugabe as a better example. He was allowed to take control in Zimbabwe and decimated his political opponents and his country's economy. You don't hear that much of him now. The West turned a blind eye to him and tried to forget what they had allowed to take control.

    Do you not see China as an autocracy currently? Xi Jinping is seen by many Chinese as a dictator. I've worked with many ex-pat Chinese people here and they have contrasting views of China. Most see Xi as a modern day Stalin and are nervous about saying anything negative in public about him, even in New Zealand.

    Now that's an overreaching arm of control.

    I'm presuming you are in the UK - correct me if I'm wrong . In NZ, Australia and the Pacific, China is seen as the number threat to world peace. They have most governments over a barrel, because of the money that they spend with those countries.

    In Africa, the Chinese policy of Belt and Road is putting already impoverished African countries into even more debt, but the Chinese government are extracting their 'interest' payments from natural resources. They are the modern day colonisers.

    Along with the abuse of human rights on the Chinese mainland and the offshore territories, it looks like a dictatorship to me.
    An excellent, eye opening scenario, well presented !
    The Chinese Government are indeed the new colonialists with dominance ensuing after their " aid development" interventions.
    The fact that they have a "plan B " alternative should also be a matter of concern. There are " alleged " reports of a mass expansion programme of the production of large troop landing vessels.

    In relation to your comment about Zimbabwe I used to know a couple of Rhodesians who had been conscripted into the armed forces.
    Some enlightening conversations !
    The Great Betrayal by former PM , Ian Smith is also worth reading.

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    • There's a great two part podcast on King Leopold II.





      Edit: Also we essentially still do colonise a lot of the world, it's just mostly done through corporations now which leads to dependencies on those items.

      Such as baby forumula, it's donated to Africa however they barely get enough for each child to reach a mature age where they don't need it, and they are told it's better than breastfeeding, which results in mums eventually not being able to produce milk for their kids through them just using the formula instead.

      And because they don't get enough they then water the formula down more than usual to make it last, and they are told to do that, but it then obviously results in the children not growing properly because of lack of nutrition.

      It's gross.

      Last edited by HeroPie1862; 15-01-2025, 10:50 AM.

      Comment


      • Interesting post from HP1862
        and thanks for that.
        Considering the Net Zero campaign "attacks" on farmers across a variety of fronts , designed to reduce agricultural production , artificial baby milk production might possibly have greater importance in the future.
        Not all new mothers are able to breast feed babies naturally either ?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SinceSept1959 View Post
          An excellent, eye opening scenario, well presented !
          The Chinese Government are indeed the new colonialists with dominance ensuing after their " aid development" interventions.
          The fact that they have a "plan B " alternative should also be a matter of concern. There are " alleged " reports of a mass expansion programme of the production of large troop landing vessels.

          In relation to your comment about Zimbabwe I used to know a couple of Rhodesians who had been conscripted into the armed forces.
          Some enlightening conversations !
          The Great Betrayal by former PM , Ian Smith is also worth reading.
          I was going to say "Rhodesia", as that what it was before it was gifted to Zanu-PF, but thought that might stir up another robust discussion on here .

          I remember watching a News at Ten broadcast in 1979, just after the right for all to vote came in and I saw an old white Rhodesian lady being interviewed and she cursed the British government and said that they had let the Communists in and the country would be a ruin in 20 years.

          She was wrong of course. The country was a ruin within 10 years.

          I was only young and I thought, that was a bit harsh of her as everybody deserves the right to vote.

          What I didn't know then (and only learned it after I met my wife whose family lived in Zambia for many years), was that the black Africans despise other Africans not from their tribe more than anyone else. Most black Africans weren't over concerned about the white settlers and in Zambia, where my in-laws worked directly for Kenneth Kaunda, Kaunda saw the only way to grow the country was to bring in Europeans to assist.

          Ian Smith and Lord Carrington worked together, under pressure form the western international community to do away Rhodesia's form of apartheid. Once white rule finished, the 'international community' moved onto it's next crusade and washed its hands of Zimbabwe.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SinceSept1959 View Post
            Interesting post from HP1862
            and thanks for that.
            Considering the Net Zero campaign "attacks" on farmers across a variety of fronts , designed to reduce agricultural production , artificial baby milk production might possibly have greater importance in the future.
            Not all new mothers are able to breast feed babies naturally either ?
            There is a modus operandi with left-wing governments. They seem to want to embrace higher density living and move everybody into cities from rural areas and then plant trees on land that was once a farm.

            I'm not being sarcastic here. Our socialist 'dream' in New Zealand was much further down the track than what Starmer's fledgling dream currently is. Trudeau (in Canada) and Ardern (in New Zealand), both started to attack their farmers later in their tenure. They had no time for farmers as they saw that farming was one of the main causes of global warming, sorry my bad, apocalypticists don't like that term anymore, I meant 'climate change'.

            In Canada and New Zealand, this was the beginning of the end for both of them. Farmers are thought of much more highly here than they are in the UK, so I presume Starmer believes he can get away with it much earlier in the piece.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lullapie View Post
              There is a modus operandi with left-wing governments. They seem to want to embrace higher density living and move everybody into cities from rural areas and then plant trees on land that was once a farm.

              I'm not being sarcastic here. Our socialist 'dream' in New Zealand was much further down the track than what Starmer's fledgling dream currently is. Trudeau (in Canada) and Ardern (in New Zealand), both started to attack their farmers later in their tenure. They had no time for farmers as they saw that farming was one of the main causes of global warming, sorry my bad, apocalypticists don't like that term anymore, I meant 'climate change'.

              In Canada and New Zealand, this was the beginning of the end for both of them. Farmers are thought of much more highly here than they are in the UK, so I presume Starmer believes he can get away with it much earlier in the piece.
              Basically red ed and Starmer are t w a t s.

              Comment


              • Back to the Chagos Islands again where the deal has been delayed with Starmers office stating

                'A spokesman for Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said it was "perfectly reasonable for the US administration to consider the detail" of any agreement.'

                What I'm confused about is that if we hand back the islands to Mauritius, why are we shelling out hundreds of million pounds on top? I'm fine with the Yanks having their say but if they have the loudest voice on this and it's in their best interests, let them pay Mauritius .

                Biden has also hammered out a deal with Palestine and Israel which will piss on Trump's chips as he wanted to take credit for that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Med Pie View Post
                  Back to the Chagos Islands again where the deal has been delayed with Starmers office stating

                  'A spokesman for Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said it was "perfectly reasonable for the US administration to consider the detail" of any agreement.'

                  What I'm confused about is that if we hand back the islands to Mauritius, why are we shelling out hundreds of million pounds on top? I'm fine with the Yanks having their say but if they have the loudest voice on this and it's in their best interests, let them pay Mauritius .

                  Biden has also hammered out a deal with Palestine and Israel which will piss on Trump's chips as he wanted to take credit for that.
                  I've spent a long time in Africa and whilst colonisation cannot be justified, it's notable how not a single, country has thrived since the colonists left. Even South Africa has an economy which is in the toilet with the ZAR, literally worth half of what it was, the last time I was there.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Med Pie View Post
                    Back to the Chagos Islands again where the deal has been delayed with Starmers office stating

                    'A spokesman for Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said it was "perfectly reasonable for the US administration to consider the detail" of any agreement.'

                    What I'm confused about is that if we hand back the islands to Mauritius, why are we shelling out hundreds of million pounds on top? I'm fine with the Yanks having their say but if they have the loudest voice on this and it's in their best interests, let them pay Mauritius .

                    Biden has also hammered out a deal with Palestine and Israel which will piss on Trump's chips as he wanted to take credit for that.
                    From what I heard on the news Trump is claiming he was behind the peace deal with Palestine.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Med Pie View Post
                      I've spent a long time in Africa and whilst colonisation cannot be justified, it's notable how not a single, country has thrived since the colonists left.
                      I don't know how long "a long time" is, but I've lived in four African countries. Several have done incredibly well lifting millions out of poverty and building solid economies with a solid middle class. Many have not, especially those who fell into strongman autocracy.

                      Even some of those strongmen got surprisingly decent starts. Zimbabwe under Mugabe was, initially, in some ways a much better place for the population as a whole than under Smith. He turned Zimbabwe into a continental leader for literacy. That didn't last, of course.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by i961pie View Post
                        From what I heard on the news Trump is claiming he was behind the peace deal with Palestine.
                        Both sides are terrified at what he might do, though however much it is lauded and tarted up it is a fragile ceasefire. If Trump does oversee a peace deal then he'll deserve a sainthood, or 72 virgins, depending on his beliefs.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Old_pie View Post
                          Both sides are terrified at what he might do, though however much it is lauded and tarted up it is a fragile ceasefire. If Trump does oversee a peace deal then he'll deserve a sainthood, or 72 virgins, depending on his beliefs.
                          I think the latter is more up his street😋

                          Comment


                          • There were two peace deals put forward to broker a peace.

                            One was backed by Biden's team and was seen by Israel as weak in terms of what Israel was getting out of it and the fact that it left Hamas in control of Gaza.

                            Israel would slowly get the hostages returned - both the dead and the living ones.

                            Hamas was fully supportive of this agreement, but it was highly unlikely that Israel would agree.

                            Israel wanted Hamas removed from any control of Gaza as well as Israel reserving the right to re-enter Gaza if there was a resurrection of Hamas. There was no way Hamas was going to agree to that.

                            Along comes Trump and his team and lets it be known that they were fully behind Israel and will give them all means necessary to destroy Hamas. It seemed to make Hamas think again on what Israel was offering and come back with a revised offer, nearer to Israel's terms.

                            Pete Hegseth said in his hearing, held by the Senate Committee on Armed Services that he would "support Israel destroying and killing every last member of Hamas". There's no ambiguity there.

                            I don't really think that Hamas had many options anymore.

                            This could be the first example of peace through strength if it works. Next stop Ukraine.
                            Last edited by Lullapie; 16-01-2025, 09:51 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by i961pie View Post
                              I think the latter is more up his street😋
                              Maybe not. Imagine having to pay hush money to 72 virgins!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Elite_Pie View Post
                                Maybe not. Imagine having to pay hush money to 72 virgins!
                                That would be a 'political witch hunt, the World has never seen a witch hunt like it'...............

                                Comment

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