O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[BanjoPie]

There is some on offer, but it's the same vague, ambiguous and contradictory mess that has characterised this shambolic government from day one. So do we or don't we need to wear face masks in public places? Michael Gove says wearing face masks should not be mandatory in shops, the next day Boris Johnson says we should wear them in shops!

The prime minister said the government would decide in the next few days if "tools of enforcement" were needed.

Just make a clear decision FFS. If you tell people what they have to do, the vast majority will comply*. If you merely 'advise' that it should be done, less than half will comply.

* obviously taking your family for a drive to test your eyesight is permitted.

Can't believe I am saying this but I actually agree with you on this.

[BigFatPie]

There is some on offer, but it's the same vague, ambiguous and contradictory mess that has characterised this shambolic government from day one. So do we or don't we need to wear face masks in public places? Michael Gove says wearing face masks should not be mandatory in shops, the next day Boris Johnson says we should wear them in shops!

The prime minister said the government would decide in the next few days if "tools of enforcement" were needed.

Just make a clear decision FFS. If you tell people what they have to do, the vast majority will comply*. If you merely 'advise' that it should be done, less than half will comply.

* obviously taking your family for a drive to test your eyesight is permitted.

Just wait until they add a no deal Brexit into the mix. I’m already stocking up on bog roll.

It’s alright though, they’ve thought of another slogan to keep the hoi polloi onside. #Letsgetgoing

[sidders]

After Brexit, it was always going to be a tough shout to get the economy on track. The damage done by Covid-19 and this government's inability to create a credible approach has devastated this country. The unemployment statistics by this time next year will be eye-watering.
If ever there was a time for nations to stick together, it was now.
What this shower of s h i t e have done is render us friendless and toothless. So many people with no clue as to just how bad things are going to get. At least they can't blame it on the left this time.

[BigFatPie]

At least they can't blame it on the left this time.

No Sid, but they’ll give it a good bloody try.

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-uk-britain-boris-johnson-must-ditch-the-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-deal/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Notts78]

There is some on offer, but it's the same vague, ambiguous and contradictory mess that has characterised this shambolic government from day one. So do we or don't we need to wear face masks in public places? Michael Gove says wearing face masks should not be mandatory in shops, the next day Boris Johnson says we should wear them in shops!

The prime minister said the government would decide in the next few days if "tools of enforcement" were needed.

Just make a clear decision FFS. If you tell people what they have to do, the vast majority will comply*. If you merely 'advise' that it should be done, less than half will comply.

* obviously taking your family for a drive to test your eyesight is permitted.

I agree with most. The Bit I don’t is about people will wear a mask if they are told to. I often catch a train, in fact I got the train home from work today. More DON’T wear a covering than do. It’s not being policed and it is clear which age demographic couldn’t give 2 hoots. In fact they were looking at me like I had leprosy. It is already compulsory on trains.

[Elite_Pie]

I agree with most. The Bit I don’t is about people will wear a mask if they are told to. I often catch a train, in fact I got the train home from work today. More DON’T wear a covering than do. It’s not being policed and it is clear which age demographic couldn’t give 2 hoots. In fact they were looking at me like I had leprosy. It is already compulsory on trains.

I haven't been on a train in years, but it seems to be observed on buses from what I've seen. I agree that it needs to be properly policed if it becomes mandatory - if you aren't wearing a mask, you're not allowed in the shop or on the bus or train.

[drillerpie]

I just can't fathom how we're in mid July and England still hasn't made masks compulsory.

[countygump]

I just can't fathom how we're in mid July and England still hasn't made masks compulsory.

Neither can I.

There's ample science that they help, especially with preventing the transmission of Covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

[Old_pie]

Neither can I.

There's ample science that they help, especially with preventing the transmission of Covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

Extracts fall short of ample science:

"Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others."
"Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings."

Whilst it seems logical at first sight many people would also think it is logical that a big stone would fall faster than a medium sized stone.

Anyways it sounds as if the Llama is going to come to the rescue.

[Elite_Pie]

Extracts fall short of ample science:

"Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings."

Even though it may fall short of ample science, when you read that particular statement as the person in charge do you go for the safety first option and make face coverings mandatory? Or do you dither, offer conflicting messages, and hope someone else sorts it?

[Elite_Pie]

I just can't fathom how we're in mid July and England still hasn't made masks compulsory.

This pub quiz question may help you:

Q. Give two examples of the common phrase 'bordering on stupidity'.

A. Scotland and Wales. Canada and Mexico also score a point.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I just can't fathom how we're in mid July and England still hasn't made masks compulsory.

It seems a decision has finally been made and they will now be mandatory in shops and supermarkets from 24th July.

It probably would have been better to implement it before shops reopened to be clear to the public? It is still 11 days away before it comes into force.

[Old_pie]

Even though it may fall short of ample science, when you read that particular statement as the person in charge do you go for the safety first option and make face coverings mandatory? Or do you dither, offer conflicting messages, and hope someone else sorts it?

I've long advocated the study of the UK Chinese communities who were wearing masks in Jan/Feb but I don't think it's been done. I've now learnt that the nice masks with a valve, which I bought a few weeks ago, are not recommended - because of the valve!! If you watch the F1 drivers being interviewed not one can go 20secs without adjusting their mask. People will stuff their Covid laden masks in their handbag, pocket etc and take it home with them, or take it out with them the next time they go out. To respond to your question - it may on the balance make a difference. The obvious route is to "suck it and see" but then if there is a "U" turn based on new and changing evidence the likes of you will come along and question how the Government could have got it wrong.

Unlike Notts the issue is not Black or White (can I express things in those terms anymore?) and the balance of opinion, which has shifted, is that it probably might be better but overall - as the current statistics show as the current policies are (albeit belatedly) working except in Leic (where I might be accused of being racists if I expressed why) - any difference may be smaller than expected and efforts better spent elsewhere. Sid can clean that sentence up for me, past my bedtime.

[Elite_Pie]

I've long advocated the study of the UK Chinese communities who were wearing masks in Jan/Feb but I don't think it's been done. I've now learnt that the nice masks with a valve, which I bought a few weeks ago, are not recommended - because of the valve!! If you watch the F1 drivers being interviewed not one can go 20secs without adjusting their mask. People will stuff their Covid laden masks in their handbag, pocket etc and take it home with them, or take it out with them the next time they go out. To respond to your question - it may on the balance make a difference. The obvious route is to "suck it and see" but then if there is a "U" turn based on new and changing evidence the likes of you will come along and question how the Government could have got it wrong.

Maybe, but the science behind the wearing or not wearing of face masks wasn't really my point. My point was the hopeless lack of any clear direction once again from the government. Just tell us we have to wear them or tell us we don't and I'll comply. It's staggering that two of the most senior government ministers are saying different things, and equally staggering that it's being brought in 11DAYS FROM NOW! If the current thinking is that it will help stop the spread of the virus, why the f@ck is it being delayed that long?

[Notts78]

I haven't been on a train in years, but it seems to be observed on buses from what I've seen. I agree that it needs to be properly policed if it becomes mandatory - if you aren't wearing a mask, you're not allowed in the shop or on the bus or train.

Thankfully my train journeys are not frequent. However, I can tell you that it’s not being adhered to and the majority of under 30s quite frankly don’t give a ****. No amount of messages over the tannoy works, in fact some have been observed laughing about it.
I don’t blame the train staff as I bet they can’t be bothered with the hassle that they would encounter. That said why can’t under cover transport police help protect those that are observing social distancing and the wearing of a face covering? That’s why the announcement re. 24th July won’t work. Someone will walk in to a shop wearing a face covering and will soon remove it. Can you imagine somewhere like Primark enforcing it? The shops need to be held accountable, as should transport. Failure to enforce could result in a fine or closure. It’s been well documented about pub closures but I also know of a pub in Hucknall that was fined £1000 for having too many folk in. That’s what we need to see more of, and it needs reporting in the news.