O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[TheBlackHorse]

Ivor Cummins is a noted covid bullsh!t merchant who’s been wrong at every stage of the pandemic.

https://www.covidfaq.co/Ivor-Cummins...4486a3302ac58e

BFP - you're more than simple. It would be funny if it wasn't quite frightening.
You clearly haven't watched the podcast - still no surprise there. Ivor Cummins is merely the co-ordinator for the presentation which is carried out by a Data Scientist, a Diagnostic Pathologist, a Biotechnologist and a Chartered Statistician from the Royal Statistical Society.
If you don't believe we're all being conned with the numbers there's no hope for you. Even the daily death charts tell you it's all deaths, not just CV19. Hospitals even get paid extra for treating CV19 cases and for dealing with deaths 'in situe', so why wouldn't you put "Cause of Death: CV19" on the death certificate.

[upthemaggies]

BFP - you're more than simple. It would be funny if it wasn't quite frightening.
You clearly haven't watched the podcast - still no surprise there. Ivor Cummins is merely the co-ordinator for the presentation which is carried out by a Data Scientist, a Diagnostic Pathologist, a Biotechnologist and a Chartered Statistician from the Royal Statistical Society.
If you don't believe we're all being conned with the numbers there's no hope for you. Even the daily death charts tell you it's all deaths, not just CV19. Hospitals even get paid extra for treating CV19 cases and for dealing with deaths 'in situe', so why wouldn't you put "Cause of Death: CV19" on the death certificate.

I'm no longer paying much attention to the Covid story, it's iike watching a repeat of last year's news. Whatever the true figures, I do find it odd that a significant number of people who are still on the left and apparently despise Johnson and the government are completely unwilling to question anything to do with Covid and actively attempt to shut down any debate.

I'm more interested in knowing exactly how Covid-19 was released into the world, Did it escape from a lab and if so, was it by accident or by design? Whatever the case may be, China must now realise they can bring the west down by releasing a new far deadlier variant... which begs the question, would they be prepared to sacrifice a few million of their own to achieve that goal?

Can anything be done about it? Thanks to Trump nobody will want to blame China now because that would mean Trump was right. The west hates itself so much right now it would probably welcome the end anyway.
Try to enjoy life whilst you still can.

[Old_pie]

BFP - you're more than simple. It would be funny if it wasn't quite frightening.
You clearly haven't watched the podcast - still no surprise there. Ivor Cummins is merely the co-ordinator for the presentation which is carried out by a Data Scientist, a Diagnostic Pathologist, a Biotechnologist and a Chartered Statistician from the Royal Statistical Society.
If you don't believe we're all being conned with the numbers there's no hope for you. Even the daily death charts tell you it's all deaths, not just CV19. Hospitals even get paid extra for treating CV19 cases and for dealing with deaths 'in situe', so why wouldn't you put "Cause of Death: CV19" on the death certificate.

Because NHS staff are also dying of Covid, or do they get paid double for the death of one of their own?

Excess death figures are available in the regular charts available. I have previously fit relatives who have struggled after Covid. 90% of those with Covid on their certificate died primarily of Covid.

Tell me who is gaining from falsifying figures and creating a non-existent crisis? Russia, China? America? The Mexicans? Notts County? The wee scotswoman? I'm struggling to seeing where the benefit of creating a crisis lands.

[andy6025]

... that's right Snobhead 1, blame the government for everything when much of the current mess is down to a portion of the population who will not follow guidelines. If you wanted rules then go and live in a society that has been brought up to follow rules without question - and it's not here. One of the reason people from overseas come to the UK is our lax approach to control; so don't be surprised if a faction of the resident population see others taking the p155 and think if it's ok for them, I'll have some of that too. In other words, a breakdown in social structure, aided by the woke, liberal society we have today.
The government are at major fault for not picking up on the 2016 pandemic review. I would like to know who sat round that cabinet table, discussed the pros and cons, then wouldn't sign off the spend to put us in a safe position. That would be one or each of the PM, Chancellor and Health Minister. Journalists are at fault too for not pressing to see/find out the details of discussion for that/those meeting/s - probably too difficult for todays journo's ...

Having lived in both countries I feel confident in saying that the general population of each has about the same level of deference to authority as one another. This is not to say that we’re identical - your yoof seem to have a strange fascination with really expensive footwear that never caught on over here (perhaps because it rains so much you spend a lot of time looking down) as well as stealing cars and barreling down the high street at maniacal speeds with the flashing blue lights giving chase behind them (why is that even a thing???)

But in terms of your government’s covid response - well your government cocked it up royally and continues to do so. Your ministers are an absolute embarrassment in dodging repeated direct questions whenever they are questioned about it. Any remotely ‘normal’ person would probably contemplate suicide after the shameful spectacle they put on.

And the numbers prove it. 100k deaths in the uk with a population of ~67 million vs Canada’s 20k deaths for a population of ~38 million. We have 1/5th your deaths with over half your population.

Our government has had its f*ck ups too. We sent the army in to senior’s long care homes to find the residents swimming in their own feces, after decades of criminally neglectful funding, privatization and deregulation. Our Ministers have also snuck off on holiday while wagging fingers at everyone else to stay home. But those that got caught were either sacked or resigned. Neither of us has pulled off an Australia/NZ, but your incompetent imbeciles are the worst. Nobody in the world envies your position. To deny it is to have a large sack over your head - and unfortunately it’s done f*ck all to prevent your covid.

[TheBlackHorse]

... spot the difference ...
Area: England 130,000 sq km; Canada 9.9m sq km; Australia 7.7m sq km
Population: London 9m; Canada 40m; Australia 26m
Accepting some failures in the UK, it's much easier to control travel in Canada and Oz. Overcrowded living conditions in the UK must be a factor. ...

[LaxtonLad]

... spot the difference ...
Area: England 130,000 sq km; Canada 9.9m sq km; Australia 7.7m sq km
Population: London 9m; Canada 40m; Australia 26m
Accepting some failures in the UK, it's much easier to control travel in Canada and Oz. Overcrowded living conditions in the UK must be a factor. ...

Quite right BH, population density should be factored in. In the countries named, Canada and Australia, there are huge areas with no population at all. If it were possible to calculate a country's area where people actually live and their numbers of Covid deaths, then compare the UK figures with those such as Australia and Canada and other "civilised" countries the results may be somewhat similar to the UK's. If we could scatter our population over a greater area there would certainly be less person to person contact and so less contagion.

[Mapperleypie]

Quite right BH, population density should be factored in. In the countries named, Canada and Australia, there are huge areas with no population at all. If it were possible to calculate a country's area where people actually live and their numbers of Covid deaths, then compare the UK figures with those such as Australia and Canada and other "civilised" countries the results may be somewhat similar to the UK's. If we could scatter our population over a greater area there would certainly be less person to person contact and so less contagion.

Japan has had 5,503 deaths. They are far more densely populated than us, much nearer to Wuhan so had less time to prepare and like us are an island.

[BigFatPie]

Japan has had 5,503 deaths. They are far more densely populated than us, much nearer to Wuhan so had less time to prepare and like us are an island.

As I’ve heard elsewhere, we need the vaccine to protect us from Boris Johnson.

[TheBlackHorse]

Japan has had 5,503 deaths. They are far more densely populated than us, much nearer to Wuhan so had less time to prepare and like us are an island.

... and the Japanese are both generally a well mannered society as well as having a history of doing what their government tells them, whether right or wrong. Carry on then ...

[Evesham Pie]

Japan has had 5,503 deaths. They are far more densely populated than us, much nearer to Wuhan so had less time to prepare and like us are an island.

True, but they have much less international travel (inbound / outbound) which will also be a factor. The UK is a much more significant international travel hub, with approximately 3x the volume of international travellers than Japan. It does beg the question though why it took the UK a year to close its borders.

[Mapperleypie]

It does beg the question though why it took the UK a year to close its borders.

It certainly does, it's a wrong-headed policy decision. You only have to look at the crowds at sporting events in Aus and NZ to see that by effectively closing their borders and using quarantine effectively these countries (whilst severely limited in regards to international travel) are pretty much back to normal day-to-day and they don't have 100,000 dead.

Given this is a government that has a mandate to be tough on immigration and would have had strong support across the political spectrum for operating a tough border policy in regards to COVID you do have to wonder what the issue is.

As with PPE and Track and Trace I'm sure it will become clear that the border policy was based around the wealth of a Tory donor or a friend of the Tories, there is no other rational explanation.

[LaxtonLad]

... and the Japanese are both generally a well mannered society as well as having a history of doing what their government tells them, whether right or wrong. Carry on then ...

Plus wearing a mask is part of their everyday outdoor clothing, it's almost part of their national costume.

[TheBlackHorse]

... we're in danger of having a discussion here ! ...
the consensus medical view last March was that the virus could take up to 10/12 days to emerge if you were positive; and that testing was wildly inaccurate, so checking flight arrivals would be useless. So do you believe our scientists were wrong/useless/confused? Do you believe overseas scientists were smarter or the masks and their testing was for placebo effect? In any event will we ever know the extent to which flight arrivals brought in the virus- guess many did. Easy with hindsight to say we should have stopped all arrivals; but at that time there were so many displaced persons you can imagine the clamour from mardy Brit's! ...

[countygump]

Seems we now have a single dose vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/johnson-johnson-s-single-dose-vaccine-found-to-be-66-effective-in-global-trial/ar-BB1dd5af?ocid=msedgdhp

[Mapperleypie]

... we're in danger of having a discussion here ! ...
the consensus medical view last March was that the virus could take up to 10/12 days to emerge if you were positive; and that testing was wildly inaccurate, so checking flight arrivals would be useless. So do you believe our scientists were wrong/useless/confused? Do you believe overseas scientists were smarter or the masks and their testing was for placebo effect? In any event will we ever know the extent to which flight arrivals brought in the virus- guess many did. Easy with hindsight to say we should have stopped all arrivals; but at that time there were so many displaced persons you can imagine the clamour from mardy Brit's! ...

Where was the scientific consensus that said checking flight arrivals would be useless?

Australian borders were closed to all non-residents on 20 March, and returning residents were required to spend two weeks in supervised quarantine hotels from 27 March last year, a pretty strange policy to adopt if the scientific consensus was that this would be useless. These same principles were discussed by Sage in their 27 April 2020 meeting and apparently implemented by the government on 10th May - but as with all things COVID this was completely half-arsed, there was no supervised quarantine. Sage at that time always had a redacted name on the minutes, I can only assume this was honest Dom 'herd-immunity, eye-test drive' Cummings. The fullness of time is not going to be kind to him or the pathetic yes men that make up the cabinet. Many more lives could and would have been saved had we actually followed the science. The stupidest part of it all is this half-arsed approach is that it has not even saved the economy, we are having the deepest recession of any major western economy.