O/T:- Trump Presidency 2.0 [hic sunt dracones]

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

The very act of Presidential pardon - of anybody, by any President - undermines the whole concept of justice and makes a mockery of the US's self-appointed 'beacon of democracy' tag.

In other news, can anyone explain to me how Trump thinks tariffs work? I'm not sure if he thinks they work how they actually do.

[Lullapie]

The very act of Presidential pardon - of anybody, by any President - undermines the whole concept of justice and makes a mockery of the US's self-appointed 'beacon of democracy' tag.

In other news, can anyone explain to me how Trump thinks tariffs work? I'm not sure if he thinks they work how they actually do.

Very good point about the pardons. Ultimately, they are 100% legal from both Presidents and so, unless the law is changed, they are what they are.


The Trump tariff argument seems to be a contentious point for many. However for the few, it seems really easy to understand.

I'll explain it how I explained it to someone over here.


I want to buy a sports car and my wife is 100% against it. I say to my wife that if I spend 100 thousand quid on a second-hand Aston Martin, my mid-life crisis will be sated and I'll be a happy man.

My wife says no way, that's too much money, but she says I could have a car for 50 thousand pounds.

So I go out and buy a second hand Porsche 718 for 50 thousand and get the car that I really wanted in the first place.

Happy wife, happy mid-life crisis gift for me.


Trump threatens Tariffs and it's a case of who blinks first. Normally it's not Trump - maybe because of too much Botox.


Listen to the story that Ben Shapiro was told by Trump about when Trump and Putin talked about Russia's 'expansion' plans. It sums up his MO in a snapshot.

Peace through strength.

[Jampie]

However, compare this to Biden. He has pardoned more than 8,000 people. This is far more than any other President. Thousands of Biden's pardons were for serious criminals (murderers, pedophiles and people convicted of committing serious fraud). He has also given pre-emptive pardons to his family and many of his close supporters. Pre-emptive in the fact that they have been pardoned for acts that they haven't been charged or convicted of, but these acts might be discovered at a later date and the individuals may have had to give evidence against Biden. Many of Biden's pardons benefit him directly. As far as I can see, none of Trumps benefit him directly.

If Trump had done the same, those with TDS would be shouting from their keyboards that all of those he had pardoned in advance had DEFINITELY done something wrong and he was only pardoning them to protect himself.

I don't defend Biden pardoning anyone. Like most non-americans I think the idea of a presidential pardon subverts the role of the courts and democracy itself and should definitely be done away with.

But the notion that Biden's pardons somehow benefit Biden (what evidence do you have which makes you believe this?) while Trumps don't is utterly ridiculous. The Jan 6 crowd Trump has pardoned tried to stop the guy that beat Trump last election getting certified as president. It was an incompetent attempt, sure, but a coup attempt nonetheless. You can't join the dots and see how Trump pardoning these people might embolden like-minded folk to do it again in the future? Seriously? This hasn't crossed your mind at all?

You mention TDS... you have it. You are a huge victim of TDS. You see him acting in his self interests and ascribe these actions somehow to altruism. You see him acting out of ignorance (tariffs) and ascribe this to some master strategy for which there is zero evidence and doesn't make sense. Tariffs will hurt the US more than anyone else. Trump is threatening self-harm. The rest of the world is looking on in wonder at his stupidity, not quaking in their boots.

You mention a mandate... well, he promised tariffs and is already walking it back. Trump doesn't care about mandates. His mandates last time were "lock her up!" (didn't even try) and "build that wall" (no wall was built) "and make Mexico pay for it" (Mexico did not, in fact, pay for it). All he achieved last time was stacking the supreme court and giving the wealthiest people a huge tax cut. Great achievements from a certain point of view, but not what he ran on.

[Med Pie]

So Trump is set to ignore an international, arrest, warrant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c78xzlxl3vjo

[SwalePie]

So Trump is set to ignore an international, arrest, warrant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c78xzlxl3vjo

Sadly the USA is not a member of the ICC.

"The US is not a state party to the Rome Statute. The US participated in the negotiations that led to the creation of the court. However, in 1998 the US was one of only seven countries - along with China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar, and Yemen - that voted against the Rome Statute."

[Robbiethepie]

I don't agree with a Presidential pardon because I believe only the Judiciary should be contemplating any pardons after due process.

[BigFatPie]

I don't defend Biden pardoning anyone. Like most non-americans I think the idea of a presidential pardon subverts the role of the courts and democracy itself and should definitely be done away with.

But the notion that Biden's pardons somehow benefit Biden (what evidence do you have which makes you believe this?) while Trumps don't is utterly ridiculous. The Jan 6 crowd Trump has pardoned tried to stop the guy that beat Trump last election getting certified as president. It was an incompetent attempt, sure, but a coup attempt nonetheless. You can't join the dots and see how Trump pardoning these people might embolden like-minded folk to do it again in the future? Seriously? This hasn't crossed your mind at all?

You mention TDS... you have it. You are a huge victim of TDS. You see him acting in his self interests and ascribe these actions somehow to altruism. You see him acting out of ignorance (tariffs) and ascribe this to some master strategy for which there is zero evidence and doesn't make sense. Tariffs will hurt the US more than anyone else. Trump is threatening self-harm. The rest of the world is looking on in wonder at his stupidity, not quaking in their boots.

You mention a mandate... well, he promised tariffs and is already walking it back. Trump doesn't care about mandates. His mandates last time were "lock her up!" (didn't even try) and "build that wall" (no wall was built) "and make Mexico pay for it" (Mexico did not, in fact, pay for it). All he achieved last time was stacking the supreme court and giving the wealthiest people a huge tax cut. Great achievements from a certain point of view, but not what he ran on.

Agree with that. Amidst all the usual nonsense and whataboutery admitting that people who would agree with him voted to release violent criminals isnt the great argument lullapie thinks it is.

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

The Trump tariff argument seems to be a contentious point for many.

It's not contentious to me, he can do what he likes. I'm just curious as to how he thinks they work.

Your description is of tariffs as a threat in a negotiation. But what's he trying to achieve? He's mentioned it before as a revenue raising tool, to be able to cut other taxes. Where does he think that revenue comes from?

And what concession is he expecting from the state of Canada in the next 2 days that he can demonstrate as a reason for not implementing tarrifs? Realistically? Baffling.

[Lullapie]

It's not contentious to me, he can do what he likes. I'm just curious as to how he thinks they work.

Your description is of tariffs as a threat in a negotiation. But what's he trying to achieve? He's mentioned it before as a revenue raising tool, to be able to cut other taxes. Where does he think that revenue comes from?

And what concession is he expecting from the state of Canada in the next 2 days that he can demonstrate as a reason for not implementing tariffs? Realistically? Baffling.

Don't take it personally, I meant generally.

You mention Canada. Canada is one of the hardest trading markets to get into in the OECD. They have a high level of protectionism for their industries and products. However, the US is Canada's largest trading partner and so buys many Canadian goods. Most of those goods enter the US without any barriers. Goods sold by the US to Canada attract large tariffs.

Funny........how people only mention tariffs that Trump is discussing, when many of the countries that he is threatening them with, have been putting additional taxes on US products for years.

New Zealand are currently in a battle with Canada about illegal tariffs that Canada placed on New Zealand products. There was a free trade agreement signed by multiple dairy producing countries but Canada, after signing it, are refusing to remove the taxes. The US and Australia are also involved in the battle to bring Canada in line.

https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-general-news/will-trump-get-involved-in-nz-s-dairy-dispute

[Lullapie]

Sadly the USA is not a member of the ICC.

"The US is not a state party to the Rome Statute. The US participated in the negotiations that led to the creation of the court. However, in 1998 the US was one of only seven countries - along with China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar, and Yemen - that voted against the Rome Statute."

Many believe that the ICC is a just a self-fulfilling entity. Seriously, what good does it do? It's another one of those 'one world' ideas that seemed a good idea in the late 1980s and early 1990s because of wars that were happening around the world, but very few of those that they charge and convict get taken into custody.

They had a bit of success with the Yugoslavian conflict and I believe that was about it.

More wasted taxpayer money to fund those on the gravy train.

[Lullapie]

Peter Mandelson has just publicly retracted his criticism of Donald Trump from 2018. He said he was wrong to have called Trump a bully, reckless and a danger to the world.

There is so much wrong with Mandelson's retraction. First of all, I don't believe Trump would care less what a failed former British Labour Minister would say about him, but more importantly Mandelson has lost any credibility he had, as it looks like he is brown-nosing to Trump with regards to the fact Mandelson has landed one of the top gravy train jobs as Ambassador to the US.

It seems that Mandelson cares more about lining his pockets than retaining any of his political morals.

However, the FBI are currently investigating Mandelson's former connections to China, although the White House has accepted his appointment.

[drillerpie]

The US is Canada's largest trading partner and so buys many Canadian goods. Most of those goods enter the US without any barriers. Goods sold by the US to Canada attract large tariffs.

I thought they had NAFTA to reduce / eliminate tariffs between Canada, USA and Mexico, and I thought Trump then renegotiated NAFTA in his first term for the Maga win.

Sounds like either you're peddling 'alternative facts' yet again, or the master of deal making got his pants pulled down in the renegotiations if Canada can sell to the US tariff free while the US has to pay to sell in Canada.

[Mapperleypie]

I thought they had NAFTA to reduce / eliminate tariffs between Canada, USA and Mexico, and I thought Trump then renegotiated NAFTA in his first term for the Maga win.

Sounds like either you're peddling 'alternative facts' yet again, or the master of deal making got his pants pulled down in the renegotiations if Canada can sell to the US tariff free while the US has to pay to sell in Canada.

Haha.

I'm getting strong 'alternative facts' here.

Trump mentioned renegotiating the NAFTA in his last term but as with most things Trump it was hot air to appeal to the lowest common denominator of people that get their news in the form of talking heads who have managed to make a successful career in monetising outright lies and outrage.

[the_anticlough]

Much of this thread is a masterclass in the Trump/Bannon strategy of 'flooding the zone with shi t'

[SmiffyPie]

Much of this thread is a masterclass in the Trump/Bannon strategy of 'flooding the zone with shi t'

And highly populated by those that belong in the "Very Boring tit for tat argumentative posters spoiling many threads " post. It doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to spot them appearing in their pontificating guise across most threads.