O/T:- Trump Presidency 2.0 [hic sunt dracones]

[drillerpie]

I'm sure if you focus entirely on defence it's a good thing.

But if you look where those billions you spent on defence could have been better spent to solve some big domestic problems, maybe not so good.

Ok but we're just taking for granted that international cooperation on procurement makes defence hardware cheaper. The F35 is in example of the exact opposite.

[drillerpie]

Trump has just confirmed 25% tariffs on goods from Mexico and Canada, an extra 10% on those from China (meaning now 20% in total) and has also announced a 25% tariff on all aluminium and steel imports from 12th March. US stock markets have sunk accordingly.

Doesn't this break the Trade Agreement with Canada and Mexico that Trump negotiated in his first term?

Yes it does break the agreement he negotiated, but it seems fairly obvious by now that his main policy aim is beating up his allies in the reality TV style because it's easier than taking on his adversaries.

Stocks also went down on the -2.8% GDP forecast yesterday. Companies are not spending any money hiring because they're trying to front run tariffs and load up on inventory, and people are saving instead of spending money because of said layoffs and general fear about what this ****ing clown show is going to do from one day to the next. Dollar down on the crypto reserve news.

Still, the important thing is that he is saying something mental every single day and signing stuff with his big pen. Big beautiful pen. Some people are saying maybe the biggest pen ever. Great television!

[Old_pie]

Making friends with Russia means USA sees no need for NATO and no need to support for Ukraine. Think of the billions of dollars that the Musk administration can save. And access to all those minerals and more in Ukraine. Financial sense, dishonourable and will in the long term be a disaster for all.

[Old_pie]

Just come across this on Quora though summary reports are in the main press, but this seems to be the full letter, written before today's news.

Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.

Your Excellency, Mr. President,

We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against Russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s Russia.

We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.

Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.

The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.

We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet Russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.

Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet Russia.

We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.

Signed,

Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland

[andy6025]

Just come across this on Quora though summary reports are in the main press, but this seems to be the full letter, written before today's news.

Touching letter. Gets you right here.

What its author fails to realize is that Trump genuinely believes he is the only one saving Ukraine, and that the likes of Biden, Johnson, Zelensky, Macron, and Tusk, etc., are the ones responsible for wrecking it and killing over a million people. As such, a letter like this might as well just say:

Please, sir, please. Please may we wreck it some more?

The answer is pretty obvious.

[TheBlackHorse]

...snide, as ever, andypandy .

[BigFatPie]

Touching letter. Gets you right here.

What its author fails to realize is that Trump genuinely believes he is the only one saving Ukraine, and that the likes of Biden, Johnson, Zelensky, Macron, and Tusk, etc., are the ones responsible for wrecking it and killing over a million people. As such, a letter like this might as well just say:

Please, sir, please. Please may we wreck it some more?

The answer is pretty obvious.

I was reading earlier about how if President Rapist really was a Russian asset what would he do differently. The answer is *not much* but the same question could be asked of Andy. Has NCM got its own Fifth Columnist?

Vance has also been dismissing the UK and France as *random countries* who havent been to war in 30 or 40 years. I think Trump has done the impossible and found a worst person than him to be VP.

[andy6025]

I was reading earlier about how if President Rapist really was a Russian asset what would he do differently. The answer is *not much* but the same question could be asked of Andy. Has NCM got its own Fifth Columnist?

Vance has also been dismissing the UK and France as *random countries* who havent been to war in 30 or 40 years. I think Trump has done the impossible and found a worst person than him to be VP.

If Trump was a Russian asset, what would he have done differently? Well that is an easy one. In his first term he would not have supplied the heavy weapons to Ukraine that he did and even Obama refused to supply. How do the conspiracy theorists explain that decision? Likewise he would not have bombed and occupied parts of Syria? How do the conspiracy theorists reconcile that? Nor would he have withdrawn from the INF treaty or the open skies verification treaty.

But let us assume that you are correct - Trump is a Russian asset and it is now Russia and America vs Ukraine backed by some of Europe. What should little old Ukraine and England do now?

In other words, given your new shocking revelation, what is your definition of victory and how do you propose to achieve it? And keep in my that a good strategist should also forecast how their enemy will respond to your moves. You have to remain a number of steps ahead.

So go ahead. Tell us how it is done.

[Jampie]

Ok but we're just taking for granted that international cooperation on procurement makes defence hardware cheaper. The F35 is in example of the exact opposite.

The F-35 is currently the cheapest per unit of all the major fighter options and by far the most capable. That's largely economies of scale though - I am not at all sure the international supply chains make it cheaper, although they might. If they do it's a very small effect compared to the impact of the huge (comparatively) production runs.

[Jampie]

If Trump was a Russian asset, what would he have done differently? Well that is an easy one. In his first term he would not have supplied the heavy weapons to Ukraine that he did and even Obama refused to supply. How do the conspiracy theorists explain that decision? Likewise he would not have bombed and occupied parts of Syria? How do the conspiracy theorists reconcile that? Nor would he have withdrawn from the INF treaty or the open skies verification treaty.

But let us assume that you are correct - Trump is a Russian asset and it is now Russia and America vs Ukraine backed by some of Europe. What should little old Ukraine and England do now?

In other words, given your new shocking revelation, what is your definition of victory and how do you propose to achieve it? And keep in my that a good strategist should also forecast how their enemy will respond to your moves. You have to remain a number of steps ahead.

So go ahead. Tell us how it is done.

Tump's first impeachment was for refusing to reply those heavy weapons. People have short memories.

[i961pie]

Touching letter. Gets you right here.

What its author fails to realize is that Trump genuinely believes he is the only one saving Ukraine, and that the likes of Biden, Johnson, Zelensky, Macron, and Tusk, etc., are the ones responsible for wrecking it and killing over a million people. As such, a letter like this might as well just say:

Please, sir, please. Please may we wreck it some more?

The answer is pretty obvious.

Blimey that's a short reply from you Andy? It's usually a 14 page rambling dossier on our much you love Putin. I like the short version even if it is your usual crap.

[Jampie]

Touching letter. Gets you right here.

What its author fails to realize is that Trump genuinely believes he is the only one saving Ukraine, and that the likes of Biden, Johnson, Zelensky, Macron, and Tusk, etc., are the ones responsible for wrecking it and killing over a million people. As such, a letter like this might as well just say:

Please, sir, please. Please may we wreck it some more?

The answer is pretty obvious.

How do you know what Trump believes, genuinely or otherwise? Do you take him at his word? I don't believe you do. I have seen evidence in this very thread that you're an intelligent human being. Which rules out believing anything Trump says at face value.

And assuming he did believe that Ukraine and its allies are responsible for the destruction for fighting back and for giving Ukraine the tools to do so, respectively, instead of, you know, the people who actually started the war by invading and are still attacking to this day. Assuming he really believes that, then he's an idiot. Because obviously Putin is responsible. Obviously the invading Russian armed forces are responsible. If Putin hadn't given the order, or the Russians had stayed home, there would have been none of the destruction and loss of life.

Do you honestly believe the Ukrainians should have just rolled over and given up, and let Putin turn them into a puppet state (or worse)?

[andy6025]

Tump's first impeachment was for refusing to reply those heavy weapons. People have short memories.

That is incorrect.

His first impeachment was for attempting to leverage an investigation into Hunter Biden?s activities in Ukraine in exchange for a $400m package that included assistance for maritime security, special operations units, secure communications and light weapons like sniper rifles and rocket-propelled grenade launchers.

There were no heavy weapons as part of that package.

People have a short memory indeed.

[andy6025]

How do you know what Trump believes, genuinely or otherwise? Do you take him at his word? I don't believe you do. I have seen evidence in this very thread that you're an intelligent human being. Which rules out believing anything Trump says at face value.

And assuming he did believe that Ukraine and its allies are responsible for the destruction for fighting back and for giving Ukraine the tools to do so, respectively, instead of, you know, the people who actually started the war by invading and are still attacking to this day. Assuming he really believes that, then he's an idiot. Because obviously Putin is responsible. Obviously the invading Russian armed forces are responsible. If Putin hadn't given the order, or the Russians had stayed home, there would have been none of the destruction and loss of life.

Do you honestly believe the Ukrainians should have just rolled over and given up, and let Putin turn them into a puppet state (or worse)?

I think Zelensky ought to have gone with his first instinct when Russia invaded. In the video linked to the article below, dated March 22, 2022, he is shown saying,

(Quote) Security guarantees and neutrality, non-nuclear status of our state. We are ready to go for it. This is the most important point. It was the main point for the Russian Federation as far as I can remember. And if I remember correctly this is why they started the war. . . I understand it is impossible to force Russia completely from Ukrainian territory. It would lead to World War Three. I understand it and that is why I am talking about a compromise. Go back to where it all began. And then we will try to solve the Donbas issue, the complicated Donbas issue. (end quote)

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ts-2022-03-27/

But then Boris Johnson showed up and, according to multiple members of the Ukrainian negotiating team, told him to stop the negotiations. I think that was a fatal mistake.

As for what Trump genuinely believes or not. I believe it to be the case because long before he ever sought the nomination for Republican candidate for president, and here I am referring about well back even into the 80s, he had always consistently talked in interviews about it being better cooperate with Russia/Soviets.

But let us even assume that I am wrong and that Trump does not genuinely believe that Zelensky and co. are responsible for wrecking Ukraine. For whatever reason, Trump is lying. Nevertheless, be has cut off American assistance to Ukraine. Zelensky has declared he will not negotiate with the Russians.

So then, what is victory for the Ukrainians and how will it be achieved?

[andy6025]

Low and behold, Zelensky has changed his position from saying that this war will last a long, long time (Kiss me once then kiss me twice and kiss me once again, it has been a long long time), to now he wants to work with Trump to end the war quickly:

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-admin-approves-sale-anti-tank-weapons-ukraine/story?id=65989898