O/T:- Trump Presidency 2.0 [hic sunt dracones]

[Jampie]

Donbas had elections. But even if they didn?t, by your definition George Washington was a terrorist.

And Donbas elections aren't legit because Donbas isn't a country. It's part of Ukraine. They did indeed have elections - Ukrainian ones.

[Med Pie]

What does Europe have that Trump needs to gain leverage for? Perhaps he doesn't want influence over Europe. His focus is on what is best for the USA, American jobs and himself (and not necessarily in that order).

I this instance, money, they want Europe to pay for them keeping the seaways open.

The point is that America has enjoyed great influence over Europe for years because it was then, in their best interests (because they were paranoid about communism, Cuba, Vietnam?) but now that communism is gone, they perceive the threat to be more Asia based yet Russia, remains a threat to Europe so it's a pretty short sighted view.

America covered European security because it was in their interests to do so but even now, as they are on the verge of pulling out all support, they continue to strongarm Europe. The UK should tell them to leave the RAF base in Cyprus and see how that goes down.

[andy6025]

And Donbas elections aren't legit because Donbas isn't a country. It's part of Ukraine. They did indeed have elections - Ukrainian ones.

Our view on legitimacy of a successful independence movement is not based on whether or not they were previously part of a country, but rather whose side they are on.

[SwalePie]

Finally...

"Donald Trump has said he is "very angry" and "pissed off" with Russian President Vladimir Putin after weeks of attempting to negotiate a ceasefire in Ukraine."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20x7z36d56o

[SmiffyPie]

Our view on legitimacy of a successful independence movement is not based on whether or not they were previously part of a country, but rather whose side they are on.

May well be having a WHoooSH moment here but who exactly is the "our" when you say "our view on legitimacy"?

[The Dug Out]

Could there BE a better display of pure courage and masculinity than calling a bunch of people cowards from the safety of your keyboard while also signalling that you're terrified of men in dresses?

Done my time away from any keyboard pal, the numpties on here wouldn't know one end of a weapon from another. Lots of good men lost their lives for this country and the end product is a Britain that has turned into a call to prayer ****hole.
The only hope western civilisation has is the likes of DT, hopefully JD will follow on.

[andy6025]

May well be having a WHoooSH moment here but who exactly is the "our" when you say "our view on legitimacy"?

It applies to whoever you like. And whoever you do not like too.

[Jampie]

Done my time away from any keyboard pal, the numpties on here wouldn't know one end of a weapon from another. Lots of good men lost their lives for this country and the end product is a Britain that has turned into a call to prayer ****hole.
The only hope western civilisation has is the likes of DT, hopefully JD will follow on.

You and I have wildly differing views on what western civilisation even is, I suspect. If trump is your answer there is no way we're asking the same question

[Lullapie]

Marine Le Pen banned for 5 years from seeking office in France for embezzlement. According to press releases it was for using EU funding to pay for her staff between 2004 and 2016. This practice was apparently widely used by other French political parties, as they didn't see it as illegal, but only the French RN has been prosecuted.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0ylgjew1xo

I might be stretching a low bow here, but there's a pattern emerging in the world, that if the left can't win at the ballot box, then they have stacked the courts and will win that way.

Two right-wing candidates in Romania have been banned from the election, after one of them topped the first round of Presidential voting.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/15/romania-bans-second-far-right-hopeful-from-presidential-election-re-run

The AfD in Germany were threatened with being removed from elections because of their 'youth group', which they have now abolished to prevent them being banned outright from voting.

https://www.politico.eu/article/afd-ends-youth-branch-germany/

Trump, of course, what more need I say? Too many links to post on that one.

The heavy-handed sentences that were handed down to the rioters and protestors against Asylum Seekers in the UK, is another sign of desperation by the left to keep power.

Either we believe in democracy or we don't. Or do some believe in democracy that only backs their own political views?

If the judiciary are being used in this way, it will only undermine what the public think of the law. That it is uneven, unbalanced and only there to preserve control for those at the top.

[drillerpie]

In the Le Pen case I would say quite a lot hinges on the sentence "this practice was apparently widely used by other French political parties". If it was then I would be inclined to agree with you that she has been unfairly treated. Have you got a source for that?

[BigFatPie]

In the Le Pen case I would say quite a lot hinges on the sentence "this practice was apparently widely used by other French political parties". If it was then I would be inclined to agree with you that she has been unfairly treated. Have you got a source for that?

Perhaps he could give examples of the heavy handed sentences he thinks were dished out after the riots while hes at it.

If far right politicians dont want to be treated like criminals it might be an idea to stop committing crimes. A revolutionary concept I know.

[Jampie]

I'm seeing the "Right" abandon its "law and order" focus completely and repeatedly raising up candidates marred by blatantly criminal conduct. To be clear I'm seeing this in the USA, not Australia. I don't know enough about French or UK politics to meaningfully contribute about those. But I do know Le Pen has ties to Putin, so removing her from the board will benefit France and the EU from that perspective.

I'm trying to imagine Peter Dutton (Australia's current right wing leader) committing crimes and his party supporting him and I just can't even imagine it happening. So to be fair this doesn't seem like a global issue to me.

Trump was found guilty in a court of law of criminal fraud. That's not a "left wing" thing or a "right wing" thing, or a front wing or a back wing. That's just a crime. The kind of crime that disqualifies you from working for a bank let alone being responsible for 100% of the spending of the largest government budget on earth. I also looked into the other charges against him and examined what US legal experts had to say on them - if they'd gone to court he would've been in trouble far worse than a fraud conviction.

The fact that the US "right" has such a huge double standard on this issue honestly disgusts me. If any democrat presidential candidate had a fraud conviction we'd never hear the end of it (and frankly the left there would ditch them like a burning bag of poo), but they turned out in droves to vote for Trump.

[BigFatPie]

The fact that the US "right" has such a huge double standard on this issue honestly disgusts me. If any democrat presidential candidate had a fraud conviction we'd never hear the end of it (and frankly the left there would ditch them like a burning bag of poo), but they turned out in droves to vote for Trump.

Not forgetting that they were desperate to lock Hilary Clinton up for emails while then being perfectly fine with top officials in their own administration sharing military intelligence on a chat group.

[drillerpie]

I'm seeing the "Right" abandon its "law and order" focus completely and repeatedly raising up candidates marred by blatantly criminal conduct. To be clear I'm seeing this in the USA, not Australia. I don't know enough about French or UK politics to meaningfully contribute about those. But I do know Le Pen has ties to Putin, so removing her from the board will benefit France and the EU from that perspective.

I'm trying to imagine Peter Dutton (Australia's current right wing leader) committing crimes and his party supporting him and I just can't even imagine it happening. So to be fair this doesn't seem like a global issue to me.

Trump was found guilty in a court of law of criminal fraud. That's not a "left wing" thing or a "right wing" thing, or a front wing or a back wing. That's just a crime. The kind of crime that disqualifies you from working for a bank let alone being responsible for 100% of the spending of the largest government budget on earth. I also looked into the other charges against him and examined what US legal experts had to say on them - if they'd gone to court he would've been in trouble far worse than a fraud conviction.

The fact that the US "right" has such a huge double standard on this issue honestly disgusts me. If any democrat presidential candidate had a fraud conviction we'd never hear the end of it (and frankly the left there would ditch them like a burning bag of poo), but they turned out in droves to vote for Trump.

Yeah it's worth distinguishing MAGA from old fashioned right. They are two different things.

I'm sure Trump did fraudulently exaggerate the size of his property but I don't know why they went after him on that. I don't think it's a game changer for people. Personally I would've followed up on him putting the heat on election officials to 'find him' 10000 votes in Georgia, but what do I know.

I agree with your post though. It's predictably becoming a pay for play free for all. A few days ago he pardoned someone sent to prison for securities fraud (ripping off investors in his company) which is unusual in itself, but it turns out that person's wife made a large donation to Trump. Now they are sending Musk to gut the SEC (the body that investigates wrongdoing in the stock market which is already woefully underfunded and lacking powers) presumably because the aim is to have rich fraudsters do whatever they want without the inconvenience of getting convicted and then having to get a pardon. Or to put it another way, 'deregulation'.

Unless you have a 7 or 8 figure net worth and no moral compass I can't understand why you would want these people in power. I mean yeah get rid of OTT political correctness but not like this.

[Jampie]

What trump was actually convicted of was falsifying records to hide the illegal payments he made for keeping Stormy Daniels quiet. The actual payments are a breach of federal law, but the fraud was to cover it up. These payments influenced the election for his first win, so not exactly a small thing. He won that election with a margin of 70,000 votes over a population of 300+ million. One more scandal probably would've lost it for him. This is a big deal.

The fact that he lied about the value of his properties constantly is also very well documented but to my knowledge he's never been charged for it, although it, too, is criminal fraud and the evidence has been in the public domain since at least 2018 when Maddow published it.

As for the "real" right vs. the maga right? I don't believe the "real" right have any power in the US anymore. The current republican party have nothing to do with the one that put Reagan or Bush Sr forward. These guys don't believe in (or for that matter even understand) international trade, free markets, rule of law, tradition or christian values. Name a single tradition Trump upholds? A single christian value?

Nowadays in the USA the mainstream democrats are the conservatives - actually caring about traditions and wanting to maintain the status quo. Republicans have become the "burn it all down" mad radicals. It looks to me like they're turning the US into an oligarch-run authoritarian regime like Russia. You only need to glance at Russia over the last 30 years to know how absolutely terrible that idea is.