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Originally posted by ragingpup
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That?s roughly 4 Rotherhams
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Roughly 111000 asylum seekers per year according to HM Gov website
That?s roughly 4 Rotherhams -
You don't help yourselves at all boys.
Ragingpup isn't wrong with his numbers.
Stop attempting to make him wrong when he's not.
Net migration, asylum seeker and illegal migrant numbers are all different.
We should be concentrating on whether or not the mass net migration numbers we've seen in the last 5 years will enrich this country and make it a better place.
Not convinced personally. Must be a raving racist then.
Or just concerned.Comment
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Are the secret regular middle of the night flights into Stansted from Gaza still happening ? How many are coming in that way and where is the Government putting them ?Comment
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Inflation up,Cost of living up,Unemployment up,heating bills up,businesses going bust up,crime up.illegal immigration up,sleeze and corruption up, etc.,etc.,etc. BUT standing up for Brit's interests before foreigner's is most certainly down with this government.The gutter language used by Starmer and his puppet cabinet yesterday was utterly disgraceful.For wanting to protect our borders and look after our own people is classed as racist,so 90% of this population are all racist according to the deluded Starmer.Originally posted by Timbertop View PostComment
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Originally posted by frogmiller View Post
Ok, so your claiming that 1 million asylum seekers have entered the UK in the last 2 years but really you are referring to legal migrants who have arrived to take up vacancies in the UK? So just to be clear, France by some way outnumbers the UK in terms of numbers of asylum seekers it processes, but it is correct to raise, whether you meant to or not, that France takes in far less legal migrants than the UK, or at least has done in recent years, and I can see why this concerns so many people.
But why has this happened?
1) International students make up roughly a third of these. Partly due to the UK gov agreeing that international students could live and work in the UK for 2 years following graduation as well as aggressive recruitment from UK universities who had their funding cut successively by the government through the austerity years. In short, without international students, many if not most universities would close. Some would think that a good thing, I think not
2) Post Brexit, the government lowered it's visa requirements to allow a greater number of health and social care workers to work in Britain. Our poor pay and conditions along with the often complex nature of care work meant we were left with thousands of vacancies to fill, hence the government granting these lower skills visa requirements. Similar in food processing and hospitality. All essential jobs that needed filling.
So huge drivers behind all of this is long term political decisions and it is interesting to note the difference between France and the UK. France on the whole offers better pay and protections to such lower skilled professions and therefore you could say that they successfully recruit into these sectors themselves. I can't say if they culturally value these jobs more, but hard to imagine them being valued less than in the UK. So you would be right: we are creating skills gaps due to what seems to be lowering of pay, conditions and status to some essential services and relying on immigrant labour to plug those gaps. I don't have a problem with that concern.
But what are the alternatives going forward? As I've already said we can invest masiively, and I mean massively, to train and skill up our domestic workforce. I think many of us if not most that this would be a desirable solution rather than importing the workforce. As long as there is a substantial workforce to train up and service all of of these and other jobs that need doing, but with the declining birthrate, it's not clear how long that can be sustained. I'm at the place of, 'Ok, I can buy into this idea - but the cost is going to be huge - how are we going to pay for it?'. I keep asking that on here but no one seems able to answer it?
Further, if part of the solution is to raise wages of both public and private sector jobs, have you, Farage or anyone done an impact assessment on that with those industries? What would the impact on an employer be if suddenly asked to add 20% to their workforce salaries? Would employers be able to afford that? What would you do if they refuse? If the NHS and public sector are going to have to add 20% onto their worksforce's salaries, how is that going to be paid for as well as all of the retraining and skilling up programmes w're all goingt o have to pay for.
I'd llove to hear answers about how all of these ambitions will be paid for. I would have expected that Farage, having led with a commitment to force some of my staff out of the country if he comes to power might have done some assessment on what the costs and impact on all of us this is going to have, but unless I missed it he hasn't said anything on this yet? Why do you think that might be?
I hear your observations on public services being stretched - but I just can't agree that this is all just due to immigration. It is due to chronic underfunding in the last 20 years. Most of the 'Boriswave' migrants arrive already trained and ready to do their jobs, are at an age where they aren't a drain on doctors and hospitals when set against the amount they are bringing in in taxes, spending etc. In short, we could indulge the fantasy and banish all of the post 2020 migrants and in my opinion there would be minimal difference to the vast machine of the NHS and public services - we would still be waiting for appointments and suffering poor public services - because we don't fund them enough. Not blaming anyone but us for this - we only vote for politicians that convince us that we can have great public services without us having to increase our tax contributions. We've made our own bed there, so don't see why we should blame migrants for it. All just my opinion of course.
And some personal stuff at the end:
You say "I think that you are blinkered by your good fortune. Your education, your job": Just for info, I failed badly at school and only got into HE through an adult access course. I was raised in a very working class pit village, both parents were alcoholics, I was homeless for 2 years as young adult, on the dole until i did the access course. My post school years living in piss smelling DHSS accomodation with drugs parties above me all night didn't kill me, but I'm not sure it was the shine of fortune upon me that you make out here.
"your outlook on Britain as a colonising nation that should somehow be punished". When have I ever said that? Why suddenly throwing that at me??
"Your willingness to give money for wars and to let the next generation pay for it." Again, WTF? When would I ever say that? I joined the protest against the Iraq war, pressured my MPs against repeating further idiotic policies in Afghanistan and doing likewise with current Labour MP over Labours role in providing arms to Israel to use in Gaza. Where TF did you get the idea that I'm a warlord??
"There are many like me that think that you are wrong" - can't disagree with this, especially on Millersmad. But we're all entitled to an opinion. We all have free speech arter all...
" and that your liberal ideals are inhibiting your need to see it from other peoples position." Please see stuff on my background. I come from a Brexit town and have friends who express the same opinions on here, including my closest pal. I understand why they are saying it, in some cases am quite frightened by why they are saying it, but I understand why. But the thing that frightens me more, and the thing that we have never really encountered in post war tech world, is the willingness to share and swallow so much information that is clearly not true, and - astonishingly - the willingness that many people have to continue to believe in a presented fact, even when it is demonstrated as untrue to them. This is a terrifying development.
If anyone is still awake after this, well done.Comment
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I may have missed something here, but I think Starmer is calling the policy to return all current UK workers with indefinate leave to remain racist. That's completely different to expressing a desire to have greater border protection. Farage's proposal on this is effectively isolating a group of UK workers on the basis only on the fact that they are recent migrants, and then forcibly deporting them on that basis. It is this, and only this that is in his opinion racist.Originally posted by MillerBill View Post
From what I can see he has been very careful to stress that it is not racist to be want to protect borders, and I'm sure that he would not even consider the ending of Indefinite Leave to Remain (but not for current UK workers forcing them to be deported) as a policy proposal as racist. It is just that particular policy as put forward by Farage (inc deportations) that he feels is racist.
Sure that may sting a little for those supporters who want to see forced deportation of these workers, who may feel that they are being called racist by association. But I think that is what he is saying.
For those of you that feel that Farage is speaking for 90% of the UK with this quite extreme policy, it's interesting to see the response from the UK public:
The poll by centre right leaning yougov saw that opinion is pretty split on public responses to the scrapping of Indefinite Leave to Remain. But when it comes to the removal of ILR from those who already have it and are currently working in the UK, the majority of people opposed (58%) with only 29% supporting it. So not sure you quite have the 90% on side with you if you feel that these would support such a proposition.Last edited by ragingpup; 01-10-2025, 01:51 PM.Comment
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I think that you are underestimating the effect of Brexit.Originally posted by ragingpup View Post
Post 2004, a lot of jobs in the UK economy were filled by 20 something Poles etc., who saw better opportunities in the UK than in their home countries and were willing to jump on a bus or plane to give it a try.
Post Brexit, the UK has had to go farther afield to find workers, but if you are recruiting from, say, The Philippines or India, the act of moving to the UK is a much bigger step.
A Pole is able to nip on a WizzAir flight to Warsaw see family for the weekend, but nipping over to Manila isn't an option.
The effect of that is that the workers brought into the country from farther afield in the Post Brexit 'Boris Wave' are more likely to bring dependants with them.
There's another possible Brexit impact. Take a look at the graph in this document showing the numbers of asylum seekers who have arrived into the UK:
It's striking how the numbers soared after the implementation of Brexit.
I'm open to other possibilities, but could Brexit and the consequential withdrawal from the Dublin Arrangements have emboldened people to come to the UK, knowing that the risk of being returned to other EU countries had been reduced?
The irony of course is that the people who sold Brexit as the solution to everything don't talk about that anymore. Instead they are now selling ending immigration and potentially removing people who are settled here as the solution to everything. And the same people are buying into it...Comment
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While the Poles were here,they did work hard and adapted to our way of life.But our economy did not improve because most of the money was sent back home to their families in Poland.The Dublin agreement once again was of no benefit to us because asylum seekers outnumbered deportations whilst we were in the EU.We did not benefit much at all being a member of the EU.We all know that after Germany, we paid the largest annual contribution and each year we showed a deficit in billions.That's why the majority voted to come out and free ourselves.The problem is,Brexit was handled badly and not fully completed because of Westminster and Whitehall remainers taking over.The globalists wanted to keep that cosy relationship that the people voted against.Originally posted by KerrAvon View PostI think that you are underestimating the effect of Brexit.
Post 2004, a lot of jobs in the UK economy were filled by 20 something Poles etc., who saw better opportunities in the UK than in their home countries and were willing to jump on a bus or plane to give it a try.
Post Brexit, the UK has had to go farther afield to find workers, but if you are recruiting from, say, The Philippines or India, the act of moving to the UK is a much bigger step.
A Pole is able to nip on a WizzAir flight to Warsaw see family for the weekend, but nipping over to Manila isn't an option.
The effect of that is that the workers brought into the country from farther afield in the Post Brexit 'Boris Wave' are more likely to bring dependants with them.
There's another possible Brexit impact. Take a look at the graph in this document showing the numbers of asylum seekers who have arrived into the UK:
It's striking how the numbers soared after the implementation of Brexit.
I'm open to other possibilities, but could Brexit and the consequential withdrawal from the Dublin Arrangements have emboldened people to come to the UK, knowing that the risk of being returned to other EU countries had been reduced?
The irony of course is that the people who sold Brexit as the solution to everything don't talk about that anymore. Instead they are now selling ending immigration and potentially removing people who are settled here as the solution to everything. And the same people are buying into it...Comment
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The Dublin Agreement had minimal impact Kerr and it's usefulness is a bit overstated in my opinion .Originally posted by KerrAvon View PostI think that you are underestimating the effect of Brexit.
Post 2004, a lot of jobs in the UK economy were filled by 20 something Poles etc., who saw better opportunities in the UK than in their home countries and were willing to jump on a bus or plane to give it a try.
Post Brexit, the UK has had to go farther afield to find workers, but if you are recruiting from, say, The Philippines or India, the act of moving to the UK is a much bigger step.
A Pole is able to nip on a WizzAir flight to Warsaw see family for the weekend, but nipping over to Manila isn't an option.
The effect of that is that the workers brought into the country from farther afield in the Post Brexit 'Boris Wave' are more likely to bring dependants with them.
There's another possible Brexit impact. Take a look at the graph in this document showing the numbers of asylum seekers who have arrived into the UK:
It's striking how the numbers soared after the implementation of Brexit.
I'm open to other possibilities, but could Brexit and the consequential withdrawal from the Dublin Arrangements have emboldened people to come to the UK, knowing that the risk of being returned to other EU countries had been reduced?
The irony of course is that the people who sold Brexit as the solution to everything don't talk about that anymore. Instead they are now selling ending immigration and potentially removing people who are settled here as the solution to everything. And the same people are buying into it...
On Brexit you are probably right about having to attract workers to do the low paid jobs from country's outside the EU , although the Tories declined to tell us that even though they knew the electorate had voted them in to government to lower immigration .
As I remember it Johnson was all for high skilled immigration and an Australian style points system , then did the exact opposite .
It pretty much comes down to this in my opinion , both the Tories and Labour can't suppress the electorate anymore on immigration because Reform are now a major player in UK politics .
Reality may well be that immigration needs to remain high but Labour aren't ever going to make a convincing enough argument for that whilst growth is practically zero , people are skint , housing supply poor and other infrastructure non existent .
I wouldn't go as far as to say immigration is the reason the country is in such poor shape but I'd question the value of it given the more people we allow to come here the less we see any real financial benefit in terms of growth or any increase in productivity that supplies greater pay offers .
Importing thousands of immigrants every year to do low paid work is actually detrimental to the economy , they take more out than they can put in despite the willingness to do the lower paid jobs .Comment
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I'm sure raging is a reight nice bloke but he's not reading the room. Listen to this Far Right Fascist Nazi Racist...
https://x.com/ArchRose90/status/1973424406358794535Comment
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Transcript (really!):Originally posted by Eternal Optimist View Post
Interviewer: What would reform do for you?
Rhonda: Yes.
I: ...What would they do for you?
R:Give us a good cost of living, you know. Everything wouldn't go up, you know. The price of plastic bags is 60 pence you know
I: Have they said something that pursuades you that they would get prices down?
R: Erm, yes. They said "We're just for the general working people" you know. They send more of a...they seem to care for people a lot more. It's not all aboout privatising everything with them...
No evidence of this lady being a far right nazi fascist. Much evidence of her being extremely gullible.
Farage on the NHS: I think were going to have to think about healthcare very, very differently. I think we are going to have to move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Frankly, I would feel more comfortable that my money would return value if I was able to do that through the market place of an insurance company".
Maybe the interviewer might have pressed her on that, or asked her to elaborate further on what evidence she feels she has that Farage cares more for working people, or that prices would go down under Reform. But I guess it was morning tv. Wouldn't want people to think and stuff.Comment
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Originally posted by animallittle3 View Post
Johnson did make those visa changes that allowed more mid to lower skilled workers to enter and work in the UK. But if you, or anyone on here were in his position, with industry reporting severe employee deficits in social care, food production and hospitality, what decision would you yourself make?
What evidence is there that importing thousands of immigrants to do low paid work is detrimental to the economy? True, we are not growing as an economy, but how might our economy performed with large holes in the workforce in these sectors?
But of course you're right on the cultural issues, and large numbers of the population heaping pressure on politicians and the only politicians likely to benefit are those that manage to what appear to be simple answers to a public that only want to hear simplistic answers, but actually behind those simplistic answers are huge **** off implications that are likely to hit the voters much harder economically.
I hear that some are past the point of caring and happy to take that hit. That's fair enough, I can't argue with that. What I do have a problem with are people that are trying duck the implications and swallow and spread quite obvious lies and fantasies in order to hand Farage his mandate.People may have lost faith in politics and economics, but in handing power to Farage, that won't stop politics and economics happening and as Truss showed, with Farage approving loudly from the sidelines, the implications for school politics in the real world is really quite ****ing expensive.Last edited by ragingpup; 02-10-2025, 09:21 AM.Comment
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I appreciate your reply Raging.Originally posted by ragingpup View Post
During a thread on the ukrainien war and just after trump won his election I asked you about funding the war is where I got your willingness to give money for that war.
On threads going back you once said that you were not proud of Britain's history.
Your background is impressive and there are not enough people like you that are able to climb out of such a position. Britain as well as societies all over the world needs the likes of you to give back and from memory you seem to do this with ***ually confused kids.
You see we just go back and forth without really knowing who we are talking to. The less you know about people the more entitled people feel they have a right to judge.
I have met many members from this board and I must be honest I do treat them differently. I am quite happy to call Brin a tit because I have met him a few times and he knows I dont mean to offend it is just something that I would say to his face anyway.
Reading about your life and struggles, the way you won through and the fact that you once said that you danced to ABBA like a kid really gives me a better perspective of you. One that I like and one that has given me more respect towards you.
I thank you for opening up.
Ps. I didnt read the first few paragraphs!Comment
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Terrorist attack in Manchester Jews targeted. Hope everyone is ok.
The religion of peace strikes again. And were importing more of them. Diversity is our strength.Comment
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