O/T Well it looks like White Lives don't matter.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

By far the funniest post ever on MillersMad.

But at least the lies are consistent

Now you know why he's on my ignore list

Cuts out the dross

[ragingpup]

It's nice to see a black person come on here and post this. It makes a change reading posts from white folk telling us what black folk think
all the time.

Your kids will do better than alright because it sounds like their parents don't wallow in self pity and failure.

Don't let these idiots suck you in. I see they're gunning for you already.

Jealousy.


Equal opportunity means give your kids a chance and don't poison their minds with nonsense.

Sorry Howdy? Who is gunning for Yak? Please specify? Yak put forward an articulate pov, the thrust of which I don't personally agree with as it over simplifies a very complicated situation, but it was well put and as far as I can see no one has gone gunning for him?

[John2]

Nonsense nonetheless. Good luck to the lad. He's patently worked hard and done well for himself. He's hardly worked up from a council estate though. Mummy and Daddy were relatively well off compared to most working class people.

Good on them too.

I've been extremely lucky to have the parents I have had, and its one of the things I am most grateful for.

But it still doesn't alter my point. If you go to a 'rough' school, or you go to a 'privileged' school and you hypothetically had exactly the same teachers, the fact your classmates have parents better able to equip them for learning has a huge impact on the academic potential of all the students.

When I tell my friends who went to boarding or grammar schools, they cannot comprehend some of the stories from my time at Clifton in the 90s. I literally remember entire 2 hour lessons where we didn't even open our book and learn a single thing because the class was so completely out of control and the teacher had to leave in tears. We were like a pack of wild animals in some lessons, and even the 'good' students like me didn't have any work to do because the teacher had too big of a task trying to get the class under control.

The imbalance is huge, the gulf in access to opportunity is huge. Its not the parents' fault if they were failed by the same system too. Rotherham is economically deprived because of the collapse of the local industry and neglect from the government to support and re-train the workforce. That's the simple reality of why things are how they are.

To argue the system is 'fair' that working class people have poorer outcomes, you'd almost have to argue that you think parents from Rotherham are genetically less capable than parents from more prosperous parts of the country. That's obviously ludicrous.

[gm_gm]

I've been extremely lucky to have the parents I have had, and its one of the things I am most grateful for.

But it still doesn't alter my point. If you go to a 'rough' school, or you go to a 'privileged' school and you hypothetically had exactly the same teachers, the fact your classmates have parents better able to equip them for learning has a huge impact on the academic potential of all the students.

When I tell my friends who went to boarding or grammar schools, they cannot comprehend some of the stories from my time at Clifton in the 90s. I literally remember entire 2 hour lessons where we didn't even open our book and learn a single thing because the class was so completely out of control and the teacher had to leave in tears. We were like a pack of wild animals in some lessons, and even the 'good' students like me didn't have any work to do because the teacher had too big of a task trying to get the class under control.

The imbalance is huge, the gulf in access to opportunity is huge. Its not the parents' fault if they were failed by the same system too. Rotherham is economically deprived because of the collapse of the local industry and neglect from the government to support and re-train the workforce. That's the simple reality of why things are how they are.

To argue the system is 'fair' that working class people have poorer outcomes, you'd almost have to argue that you think parents from Rotherham are genetically less capable than parents from more prosperous parts of the country. That's obviously ludicrous.

Interesting you blame the government, I left the steelworks at 23 as this wasnt the high paid navanah you describe.

I know many people who left the steelworks and the Mines and did well for themselves in a multitude of different fields, the poverty trap you describe isnt real. As Yak says there are opportunities if you are prepared to work hard and take a few knocks along the way.

[John2]

Interesting you blame the government, I left the steelworks at 23 as this wasnt the high paid navanah you describe.

I know many people who left the steelworks and the Mines and did well for themselves in a multitude of different fields, the poverty trap you describe isnt real. As Yak says there are opportunities if you are prepared to work hard and take a few knocks along the way.

*Facepalm*

My entire argument is that the fact there are exceptions, myself included, doesn't mean the rule isn't true.

A big problem society has is perceiving the 'skill' to work hard as some magical thing that those deserving are born with, and those who are not deserving are not.

The reality is, hard work and even aspiration and ambition are skills that need to be taught by those lucky enough to have acquired those skills themselves.

It is an indisputatable fact that a child born and going to Clifton school in Rotherham is going to have massively poorer life prospects than a child born in the wealthy Clifton area of prosperous Bristol.

The parents aren't biologically 'superior', they just happen to have been born in a 'haves' part of the country than a 'have-nots' part.

Its staggering to see people try and argue the class system we have is fair. Its not. The people of Rotherham are just as capable at birth of hard work, and high professional and academic attainment as any other human on the planet. Until the people of Rotherham are achieving this we should be fighting to fix this inequality, not accepting our lot as though we are somehow undeserving.

[Shark27]

*Facepalm*

My entire argument is that the fact there are exceptions, myself included, doesn't mean the rule isn't true.

A big problem society has is perceiving the 'skill' to work hard as some magical thing that those deserving are born with, and those who are not deserving are not.

The reality is, hard work and even aspiration and ambition are skills that need to be taught by those lucky enough to have acquired those skills themselves.

It is an indisputatable fact that a child born and going to Clifton school in Rotherham is going to have massively poorer life prospects than a child born in the wealthy Clifton area of prosperous Bristol.

The parents aren't biologically 'superior', they just happen to have been born in a 'haves' part of the country than a 'have-nots' part.

Its staggering to see people try and argue the class system we have is fair. Its not. The people of Rotherham are just as capable at birth of hard work, and high professional and academic attainment as any other human on the planet. Until the people of Rotherham are achieving this we should be fighting to fix this inequality, not accepting our lot as though we are somehow undeserving.

How would you distribute the wealth more fairly John?

[John2]

How would you distribute the wealth more fairly John?

I'd tax the billionaires more, close the tax loopholes, and criminalise hiding profits overseas for business done in this country.

I'd invest funds in the grassroots level in creating opportunities to help level the playing field.

[animallittle3]

Interesting you blame the government, I left the steelworks at 23 as this wasnt the high paid navanah you describe.

I know many people who left the steelworks and the Mines and did well for themselves in a multitude of different fields, the poverty trap you describe isnt real. As Yak says there are opportunities if you are prepared to work hard and take a few knocks along the way.

I left the mining industry in 1987 of my own accord and after my old man gave me the best piece of advice he ever gave me .

" Get out now lad whilst tha not competing with thousands more for the few jobs there will be , get a head start "

Initially I got a job on less money but found another one 12 months later that paid reasonably well .

Without that advice I could have stayed in the industry till the bitter end in 1993 , picked my brass up and then see it dwindle away to nowt because in 90's South Yorkshire there was feck all going jobs wise , things could have been very different .

I was lucky to get that advice and although I've been made redundant a few times since I've managed to have a reasonable financial life , not loaded , steady but I've put the hours in too , 12 hour shifts , weekends , you name it .

Things like that can make a huge difference going forward in life .

Everyone at some point needs to catch a wave and some posters on here aren't prepared to look much past the wave they caught , nobody's is disputing how hard anyone's grafted .

The lack of investment in areas like South Yorkshire should shame both sides of the political divide because they didn't give a shyte and I do mean both sides of the divide .

The more you invest in areas like this the more you increase the chances of people catching the wave .

It really is that simple , no self pity , no Citizen Smith just a reasonable analysis on reality .

[Exiletyke]

Interesting you blame the government, I left the steelworks at 23 as this wasnt the high paid navanah you describe.

I know many people who left the steelworks and the Mines and did well for themselves in a multitude of different fields, the poverty trap you describe isnt real. As Yak says there are opportunities if you are prepared to work hard and take a few knocks along the way.

Where has John described any high paid navanah [think you mean Nirvana] in his post[s]

[howdydoo]

I'd tax the billionaires more, close the tax loopholes, and criminalise hiding profits overseas for business done in this country.

I'd invest funds in the grassroots level in creating opportunities to help level the playing field.

I’d do that too.

Never said anything to contradict that.