Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
Agree with you re Johnson a total incompetent and self serving liar.

Me thinks your taking too much notice of the right wing media who conveniently label the civil service as being the problem, when in actual fact its the Tory government who are incompetent. Indeed a leading Tory, I forget who, has just yesterday said, the Government need to stop blaming the civil service for when things go wrong, when they are down to government errors.

So lets get this clear - the civil service has always been neutral and served the government of the day, however, they are obliged as part of their job to advise government when a policy or action they propose is a) illegal, b) unworkable or c) just pie in the sky.

We saw what happened with Truss when she sacked the leading civil servant in the Treasury who warned her about her infamous budget and sure enough the markets spooked at the uncosted and unrealistic proposals.

There is more to the job, certainly at the higher level, (A friend of mine was a very senior civil servant and used to say that it was fine doing what the politicians wanted but they often ignored advice on how to achieve it and then had a strop when it didn't work. He worked under Labour and the conservative/Lib Dem coalition and said both were equally problematic in not liking being told the actual consequences of what they were proposing, or being advised that something was illegal.

On the whole the UK civil service do a very good job, compared to other countries where it is very much politicised. One has to remember that on the whole politicians have little detailed understanding on how to deliver their policies.

As for the ECHR, for all it may seem a solution to enabling some policies to happen, one would surely far ratherlive in a country that observes it - remember its got nowt to do with the EU, it was the UK that help set it up to go some way to ensuring there was a way of calling governments to account who abused human rights.

One can't just remove a respect for human rights because it seems convenient to do so.
Yes it is more than a job Swale. But they don't get to pick and choose the policies set. They seem to think they do.
They have threatened strike action over Rwanda and Border Force have threatened it over boat control. That is not their call. They do not answer for it.

As for the ECHR, we all know why it was introduced after the Nazi's There is nothing wrong with a country having an adequate judicial system or "bill of rights". I don't think we'll be seeing genocide in the UK anytime soon.
Countries around the world don't need the ECHR to do the right thing.

Thus situations, like a plane being held on the tarmac by a judge somewhere in Europe, who over rides a countrys legal system. Cannot be allowed to continue.
You aren't even allowed to know who this judge was and what grounds he stalled it.
Then there's the foreign criminals, stuck here, because they lodge appeal after appeal through the European courts to prevent deportation. It's outrageous. We aren't even talking minor league nasties here, but real hard core.

So sorry Swale, you and I will have to remain poles apart on this one.
The rights of a countrys citizens and innocents, far out weigh some scumbags whinging about their human rights.