Mowbray

[Omegstrat6]

To my mind, TMs biggest mistake has been a lack of consistency regarding selection. Even if I had not agreed with what he thought that his best team was, I would have accepted it and given the side a chance to prove itself. However, he kept chopping and changing, which made it very difficult for the players to adapt to any system or style of play.

Agree with you Leics. I think some of our more disjointed performances are a direct consequence of too much chopping and changing which are not due to injuries or red cards and you can sense a degree of frustration amongst the players themselves about this.

Of course you need a degree of flexibility to match specific opponents but this does not necessarily mean a change in personnel all the time and might be solved by tactical changes instead.

For a while we enjoyed success with both Fellows and Johnston on either wing getting down to the line to put balls in for Maja. Naturally, teams got wise to this and pretty soon both found themselves targeted by defences who put more than one player on them to blunt their ability to create chances. Does that mean that we then automatically swap them for Diangana or Grant? I'd argue not as I feel that Fellows and Johnston are still our best players for those positions. (I do, however, like Grant and feel he does well playing off the shoulder alongside Johnston).

Players build up understandings between each other which is surely a big part of any teams ability to create chances so too much switching about surely can't help.

[Omegstrat6]

A bit of Insite of what what could be going on behind the scenes from Albion79 on the West Brom . com forum
https://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=29108.900
When Tony Ist came to our club ,in the Ist pre season he got rid of a few bad eggs the likes of Hartson .

Interesting post from Albion 79 Soulman, so thanks for the link. Don't doubt that there is more than a little in what he says. If true, it needs managing but I would have thought TM would have had the necessary experience to deal with it.

Tbh, this sort of issue-dealing with the established "bad eggs" whilst developing and improving others-is something all managers have to face at some point in their career. Bartley's arm waving on the pitch may indicate his negative influence in the dressing room and, if it is, it certainly can't be ignored.

[baggieal]

I?m not expecting any guaranteed success, but I am expecting some cohesion in our play, an identity and a clarity with who is picked to start, formations, substitutions etc. TM hasn?t provided that, we had it with CC.

I think it was a nostalgic appointment but it just hasn?t worked out. Some of the decisions have been baffling, persisting with Wildsmith, playing price up front v Bristol C with 2 strikers on the bench. Dropping of Fellows and at times Johnston. Playing Armstrong upfront on his own with him barely touching the ball, again with 2 target men on the bench. The massive increase of indiscipline that has crept in since CC left. Bringing on Grady and Swift at HT yesterday, two players who are likely running their contract down and won?t be here next season. I could go on and on, but he just hasn?t got the key decisions right.

It?s time to move on in the summer in my view.

I agree completely with Matt and this post from 123 sums up the situation perfectly. It?s not just the poor players but take the Bristol and Coventry games - Mowbray?s selections/subs and awful discipline of two brainless players have shown him up for what he is! Why the hell would you take off a striker to be replaced by two consistently poor players whose contracts will be ended?

Don?t mind losing whatsoever if selections are right and players give 110% as a minimum. That?s not been the case.

[Prando]

Interesting post from Albion 79 Soulman, so thanks for the link. Don't doubt that there is more than a little in what he says. If true, it needs managing but I would have thought TM would have had the necessary experience to deal with it.

Tbh, this sort of issue-dealing with the established "bad eggs" whilst developing and improving others-is something all managers have to face at some point in their career. Bartley's arm waving on the pitch may indicate his negative influence in the dressing room and, if it is, it certainly can't be ignored.

Agree Omeg buddy. Unfortunately, sometimes the senior players become a stronger influence than the Manager. I believe we experienced that scenario under Ismael, wherein his disciplined demands were ultimately challenged by some of the players, eventually resulting in his dismissal.
There seems a poor attitude within the team at present, which is filtering through to the fans. I?ve posted elsewhere that Monday?s match must be the opportunity to put this right. Let?s start on the front foot with some positivity. I?m afraid the Bartley arm waving will continue, but I trust his constant pedestrianising the potential attacking moves will be overruled.

[Calgarybaggy]

This squad has underperformed for two or three seasons now under several different managers with very different approaches.

Carlos was the most successful recently because he preached a very tight defence but we scored very few under him and we were already stagnating by the time he left. And do you think he would have decided to leave if he had felt he could achieve something with this group of players. Why go to a bottom placed team in Spain when you have a legitimate contender for promotion to the Premier League? I don?t buy this ?he wanted to go home? nonsense. Managers are by nature ambitious and sentiment rarely enters into decisions

I suspect that there is a serious problem in the dressing room because we have some very talented players and one of the best and deepest squads in the league but they never seem to deliver and the players rarely seem to play with any enjoyment or passion. They look either irritated or upset most of the time. The number of petulant, needless red cards we have received lately also suggests an attitude problem in the dressing room.

I doubt there is anything any manager can do with this bunch so it does need a clean out.

I also suspect that Mowbray?s team and substitute decisions are made more out of desperation than anything to see if something, anything, will work. We all have our ideas of who should and shouldn?t play but I actually thought the starting line up on Friday was a solid choice and yet we got nothing from them at all. He then brought on Swift who is supposed to be a skillful, experienced player who promptly made a non-league error and we were 2-0 down. Even then the game was not out of reach but was over a few minutes later once Styles saw fit to rugby tackle a player on the sideline near the half way line when already on a yellow card. Two moments of absolute stupidity and the game was over. In a game we needed to win, the lack of passion, common sense and urgency was palpable.

So I am not blaming Mowbray at all. He is likely even more frustrated than we are. We need to give him a chance to clean house and build the team he wants, not the players he inherited and quickly found out too many of whom do not give a damn.

[SwedishBaggie]

This squad has underperformed for two or three seasons now under several different managers with very different approaches.

Carlos was the most successful recently because he preached a very tight defence but we scored very few under him and we were already stagnating by the time he left. And do you think he would have decided to leave if he had felt he could achieve something with this group of players. Why go to a bottom placed team in Spain when you have a legitimate contender for promotion to the Premier League? I don?t buy this ?he wanted to go home? nonsense. Managers are by nature ambitious and sentiment rarely enters into decisions

I suspect that there is a serious problem in the dressing room because we have some very talented players and one of the best and deepest squads in the league but they never seem to deliver and the players rarely seem to play with any enjoyment or passion. They look either irritated or upset most of the time. The number of petulant, needless red cards we have received lately also suggests an attitude problem in the dressing room.

I doubt there is anything any manager can do with this bunch so it does need a clean out.

I also suspect that Mowbray?s team and substitute decisions are made more out of desperation than anything to see if something, anything, will work. We all have our ideas of who should and shouldn?t play but I actually thought the starting line up on Friday was a solid choice and yet we got nothing from them at all. He then brought on Swift who is supposed to be a skillful, experienced player who promptly made a non-league error and we were 2-0 down. Even then the game was not out of reach but was over a few minutes later once Styles saw fit to rugby tackle a player on the sideline near the half way line when already on a yellow card. Two moments of absolute stupidity and the game was over. In a game we needed to win, the lack of passion, common sense and urgency was palpable.

So I am not blaming Mowbray at all. He is likely even more frustrated than we are. We need to give him a chance to clean house and build the team he wants, not the players he inherited and quickly found out too many of whom do not give a damn.

Makes a lot of sense CB.