OT - Has anyone seen Nigel?

[Geoff Parkstone]

rA :When I see debate I'll join in, when I see a one eyed political circle jerk I'll continue to be disruptive as you put it

[ramAnag]

Telling someone to grow up for having a different opinion to yourself is itself not grown up

Oh for crying out loud, I’m not suggesting you need to grow up because our opinions differ, I’m saying ‘grow up’ because you offer no argument and just continually personalise things.
If you’re going to participate just stop getting so obsessively hung up over Swale and I regularly agreeing and offer an honest opinion on Farage and the appropriateness of his methods and behaviour. That’s the point of the thread after all.

[swaledale]

rA :When I see debate I'll join in, when I see a one eyed political circle jerk I'll continue to be disruptive as you put it

I can provide many examples of debate that isn't as you term it a one eyed political circle jerk, where as soon as your view is challenged or shown to be wrong, you withdraw immediately.

Further examples of your delusion is this constant harping on about RA and I agreeing, we do sometimes we disagree on others, that you term mysel and RA as leftists, but MA who often has similar views you don't.

I don't see RA as a leftist particulary, left of centre maybe, but IMO he is pretty much a centrist. But then you seem, through your constant repetition of phrases such as "two tier" etc. to be incapable of much original thinking, regurgitating crap thats published online or in certain areas of the media. I'm definitely left of centre on some things, to the right on other, I tend to find the extremes at either end of the political scale distasteful at best and appalling at worst.

With respect to Farage, your even more contradictory, on another thread you were accusing me of not recognising the danger he poses merely because I said (backed up I might add by the views of Sir John Curtice) that Reforms votes were not largely coming from Labour. I understand that you like being provocative, its just a shame you can't carry it off intelligently.

That wasn't a left or right debate it was a discussion on facts, yet you couldn't or wouldn't understand the point.

The points I was making about Farage's intervention on the Nowak murder, were in fact made in different ways by every other political leader, whether on the right left or centre of politics.

Its telling that neither you nor AF seem to be able to grasp this or indeed feel it necessary to condemn his words and actions in this case.

I would have thought it hardly controversial to find the behaviour of a politician openly encouraging revolt and division amongst the people of the UK by saying things which can be proven to be lies and who is clearly not interested in understanding what actually happened in this case, or indeed respecting the views of the victims family to be disgusting.

It would seem you do not, otherwise you would have said so which frankly doesn't show you in a good light.

By the way your not disruptive, you just demonstrate that you are actually incapable of adult debate.

[swaledale]

Swale same as mine that sent you to sleep - goose and gander theory

I'd say discussing matters withyou is like a discussion with primary school children, but that would be insulting their intelligence.

[swaledale]

I think this response MIGHT have had just a little credibility if you hadn’t posted the identical phrase on another thread. But you did, so it doesn’t.

rA, for you to the usual of siding with Swale you’ll have to admit to reading that thread, which you said you wouldn’t

Mm, can you actually read? because I referred to my post on that thread, which GP himself said was "unserious" and was in fact a response to his calling my summary of Farage "pompous". Which you know fair enough thats his view.

Still waiting for your condemnation of Farage for his disgraceful intervention in the Novak case though, or perhaps you approve, becuase as you once famoulsy said of Trump, you agree with with some of what he says. Though in this case no reasonable person would agree with his sentiments which are clearly false.

[swaledale]

Oh for crying out loud, I’m not suggesting you need to grow up because our opinions differ, I’m saying ‘grow up’ because you offer no argument and just continually personalise things.
If you’re going to participate just stop getting so obsessively hung up over Swale and I regularly agreeing and offer an honest opinion on Farage and the appropriateness of his methods and behaviour. That’s the point of the thread after all.

The only conclusion one can draw is that AF rather agrees with much of what Farage says, after all remember his approval of Trump's "good bullying", though admittedly that history rather shows that to have been ill advised.

[SithHappens]

Several days in i still find it hard to believe he used those words, especially after Southport.

I know the likes of Goodwin and Anderson have been defending the comments by saying it actually means a controlled form of anger, but did they really expect the thugs to pull out their dictionaries to make sure they fully understood the meaning of the words?

Of course not, he knew what he was doing.

Had he expressed anger at the way the police acted, and at the cowardly manner the offenders tried to blame him and use race, then id have supported that. I see today there are reports that the police wanted to release a statement confirming Henry as the aggressor. Disgusting, there are still questions to be answered.

Farage, whether we like it or not, is in a position now of responsibility, because people do listen to him, he needs to start being more responsible with his words because if he ever does become PM he just won't get away with it.

Starmer was spot on in PMQ's this week, and thats the sort of scrutiny farage will get every day of every week should he get elected, as the title of this thread suggests he likes to go and hide, but as PM he won't be able to, and imo he won't last 5 minutes, especially if he continues to sow his appalling brand of hate and division.

[ramAnag]

Several days in i still find it hard to believe he used those words, especially after Southport.

I know the likes of Goodwin and Anderson have been defending the comments by saying it actually means a controlled form of anger, but did they really expect the thugs to pull out their dictionaries to make sure they fully understood the meaning of the words?

Of course not, he knew what he was doing.

Had he expressed anger at the way the police acted, and at the cowardly manner the offenders tried to blame him and use race, then id have supported that. I see today there are reports that the police wanted to release a statement confirming Henry as the aggressor. Disgusting, there are still questions to be answered.

Farage, whether we like it or not, is in a position now of responsibility, because people do listen to him, he needs to start being more responsible with his words because if he ever does become PM he just won't get away with it.

Starmer was spot on in PMQ's this week, and thats the sort of scrutiny farage will get every day of every week should he get elected, as the title of this thread suggests he likes to go and hide, but as PM he won't be able to, and imo he won't last 5 minutes, especially if he continues to sow his appalling brand of hate and division.

Wholeheartedly agree with that, Sith. My concern is that Trump (NF’s mentor) and his acolytes have, in relation to your closing comment, rather proved otherwise.

[Andy_Faber]

Mm, can you actually read? because I referred to my post on that thread, which GP himself said was "unserious" and was in fact a response to his calling my summary of Farage "pompous". Which you know fair enough thats his view.

Still waiting for your condemnation of Farage for his disgraceful intervention in the Novak case though, or perhaps you approve, becuase as you once famoulsy said of Trump, you agree with with some of what he says. Though in this case no reasonable person would agree with his sentiments which are clearly false.

We?ve been talking about ?thuggery? and it?s a type of thuggery to demand that others agree with your stance rather than respect the right to another, or no, opinion. It?s part of your unseemly tactics, along with crying ?raciest?, ?bigot?, good German? and ?idiot? at every turn. Speaking about people in the third person ?in public? is also particularly unedifying, if you want to talk about myself,GP, TTR or anyone else who doesn?t share your view, do it in private, I?m sure you can find a way.

[MadAmster]

I have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no reason to worry about NF becoming PM. I don't believe that the good folk of Clacton will make the same mistake again. He's never in ths constituency. Doesn't hold surgeries because of security issues despite having been given 5M for said security by a crypto billionaire that suddenlt wasn't for escurity at all but for his campaigning on Brexit. He's missed 77 consecutive votes in Parliament. When he is there, he votes against improving safety for women anf girls. He votes against improving workers' rights. He won't. IMO, be re-elected.

[ramAnag]

I have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no reason to worry about NF becoming PM. I don't believe that the good folk of Clacton will make the same mistake again. He's never in ths constituency. Doesn't hold surgeries because of security issues despite having been given 5M for said security by a crypto billionaire that suddenlt wasn't for escurity at all but for his campaigning on Brexit. He's missed 77 consecutive votes in Parliament. When he is there, he votes against improving safety for women anf girls. He votes against improving workers' rights. He won't. IMO, be re-elected.

I do so hope you’re right, MA.

Personally I think, if he stands, he probably will be re-elected in Clacton, despite everything you logically say for why he shouldn’t be.

As regards becoming PM. I fear Reform UK may win say 25% of the active electorate’s vote at the next election and may even be the biggest single party. However I am reassured that the majority of the remaining 75% will be able to display sufficient unity to keep him away from Downing Street.

Of course a lot may happen between now and the next election. Labour may have a new, less (unfairly imo) demonised, leader, the Tories may become a credible force again, Restore Britain may split the far right and those who should know better may have woken up and come to recognise Farage as the divisive conman many believe him to be, leading a party of populist incompetents.

[SithHappens]

Has a party leader ever lost their seat in a GE?

What happens if they do but their party is in a position to form a government, you cant, as far as I know, be PM without being an MP.

Still think if they do get elected he won't last long as PM.

[MadAmster]

1. Has a party leader ever lost their seat in a GE?

2. What happens if they do but their party is in a position to form a government, you cant, as far as I know, be PM without being an MP.

Still think if they do get elected he won't last long as PM.

1. No.

2. They could persuade someone with a safe seat to resign and hope the unseated leader wins the subsequent by election. If that fails they'll have to appoint a new leader who will become the PM

[Andy_Faber]

Has a party leader ever lost their seat in a GE?

What happens if they do but their party is in a position to form a government, you cant, as far as I know, be PM without being an MP.

Still think if they do get elected he won't last long as PM.

Yes. Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson lost her seat to the SNP in 2019

[SithHappens]

Yes. Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson lost her seat to the SNP in 2019

Jeez id even forgot she was leader, I had in my head it was straight from cable to davey