OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

I agree but I ahve yet to see an explanation as to how leaving the EU will give people what they want? We will still be ruled by big business and the elite who ensure that politicians do what they want, because they can offe thos epoliticians a chnace to ge thir snout in the Uk trough!

I struggle to see how the refugee crisis, which one could argue has been handled very badly is anything to do with the EU? So the point about 500% increase in ***ual assaults (a very dubious statistic and one closely aligned to distrust of foreigners and other cultures) is irrelevant in the context of the vote to leave the EU - last time I looked I hadnt noticed the Eu had forced us to accept any non Eu citizens!!

People may be fed up with big business, corruption and the rich getting richer whilst the poor get poorer but I have yet to see they will actually do anything about it and the vote leave the EU certainly hasnt improved thier lot as we will no doubt see.

I do open my eyes and ears - the reason I am aghast at the leave's reasons for voting leave is that firstly the reasons given dont bear close scrutiny - the vast majority of our laws are passed by UK government , perhaps you could clarify how laws passed by the EU have impacted negatively on your life or those whom you know? Immigration underpins our economy and the without it we would be in a very sorry state unless you believe that there are simply thousands of decent skilled hard working Brits who are not working simply because immigrants have taken their jobs?

IF the economy dives due to Brexit, it will be those who voted leave who will be hardest hit - will they think the "freedom" gained is worth it?

Think you're playing this down too much swale

Truth is, no one actually knows. Also the fact that our laws are tailored in line with EU regulations and policies in fear of EU courts of law, which always supersedes ours.
If this was allowed to go on, the Superstate would eventually swallow and enforce a European law on everyone. So talking about the here and now is plain daft. Look further ahead, look at the plan and what is lined up,
We got out in time. un CHECKED THERE WAS NO ESCAPE FROM THE "PLAN"

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/

[mistaram]

Excellent Tricky could not agree more

[swaledale]

Think you're playing this down too much swale

Truth is, no one actually knows. Also the fact that our laws are tailored in line with EU regulations and policies in fear of EU courts of law, which always supersedes ours.
If this was allowed to go on, the Superstate would eventually swallow and enforce a European law on everyone. So talking about the here and now is plain daft. Look further ahead, look at the plan and what is lined up,
We got out in time. un CHECKED THERE WAS NO ESCAPE FROM THE "PLAN"

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-w...influenced-eu/

No thats another big fat anti EU lie - you seem to take the plans and ambitions of certain leaders as what will happen, when actually its one set of ideas and plans that other EU countries are not going to agree with. Look ahead and you will see that things will have to change for the EU - the whole matter is more complex - the failure of the Euro, the economic crisis in europe and the increasing economic strain on germany plus the refugee crisis are all putting strains on the "grand plan" which will see the EU evolve differently - IMO its better to be part of the club and influence that change than to be on the outside and have no influence - we had a a very strong position as a member of the EU and a powerful veto which protects the Uk from closer integration.

And in any case, should the grand european project become unpalatable the option to leave would still be there, now was not the right time and we haven't done it for the right reasons -

I'm still waiting for the examples of how EU law has impacted adversely on those who voted to leave, how has it impacted on the country negatively?

Does our "freedom" come at a cost you are willing to pay?

[ramAnag]

Sadly the issue of Irritable Duncan Smith's sandwiches has passed me by.

Appreciate the response Roger. Maybe all is not lost. If you're right...hope we don't pay the long term price of being first to leave...perceived as a sort of national equivalent of Michael Gove in terms of back stabbing and jumping ship.

Overall I've said my piece but I have to say I continue to agree 100% with Swale's latest comments on the situation. I accept that there is a lot wrong with the EU and that many 'Bexiteers', including most on here, have though things through and have well founded arguments but I continue to suspect that far too many voted 'Leave' on the basis of mis-information, irrelevancies and prejudice. Two weeks on, with the three main culprits having all now seemingly shuffled off to pastures new, that for me is very sad.

[roger_ramjet]

Swale....you talk of rhe failure of the Euro. Is this the same Euro that has appreciated against sterling by 10% in the past two weeks?

The concept of the Euro is sound within a unified Europe with common economic "heat" and compatible tax regimes. The problem is that it was initiated in a half-arsed way into a union that was not ready for it.

The Euro came too soon, to use a complex economic term, and made a mess on the sheets. Within a coordinated federal Europe it would be sensible but the flaw was that Europe wasnt ready for it: but Germany was. The relatively low Euro exchange rate, dragged down by weaker economies also using the Euro, that was out of synch with German economic strength was great for Germany but noone else.

This is what I mean by the economic heat being compatible within the Eurozone. It wasnt and still isnt. But show me a German exporter who says the Euro was a failure and Ill show you a liar. The Euro is yet another ill applied notion: great in theory, inapplicable in practice. Country A cannot "borrow" Country B's economic weakness via a common currency to make its exports cheaper and not expect consequences. As ever, Germany wins and countries like Greece lose as their export pricing suffers the inverse.

[Trickytreesreds]

No thats another big fat anti EU lie - you seem to take the plans and ambitions of certain leaders as what will happen, when actually its one set of ideas and plans that other EU countries are not going to agree with. Look ahead and you will see that things will have to change for the EU - the whole matter is more complex - the failure of the Euro, the economic crisis in europe and the increasing economic strain on germany plus the refugee crisis are all putting strains on the "grand plan" which will see the EU evolve differently - IMO its better to be part of the club and influence that change than to be on the outside and have no influence - we had a a very strong position as a member of the EU and a powerful veto which protects the Uk from closer integration.

And in any case, should the grand european project become unpalatable the option to leave would still be there, now was not the right time and we haven't done it for the right reasons -

I'm still waiting for the examples of how EU law has impacted adversely on those who voted to leave, how has it impacted on the country negatively?

Does our "freedom" come at a cost you are willing to pay?

That's your opinion Swale. The Eurocrats don't agree with that opinion at all.
Every problem you have highlighted reinforces my argument.
Every problem that shoots up, is met with the chorus of "more Union".
The really are so deluded, that they believe that what they are doing is the right way. If you object, then you get squished.

You're also talking from the prospective that the UK government have been fighting against the plan and for us?
What if I told you they haven't?
From when we first joined, they lied to us. They Heath and then Wilson stuck with the pretext it was a financial adventure, knowing the British people would never go for Sovereign surrender.
THEY KNEW FROM DAY ONE- ABOUT THE "PLAN"

I know you won't believe me, you're so ingrained that politicians would never do such an awful thing.
They aren't the angels you believe and have been behind this in cahoots, with the Euro power houses. They follow the Coudenhove Kalergi plan and it's full implications.

Here's some light reading for you.
Up to you what you believe.

http://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/britain-europe-bruges-group/

[Trickytreesreds]

Swale....you talk of rhe failure of the Euro. Is this the same Euro that has appreciated against sterling by 10% in the past two weeks?

The concept of the Euro is sound within a unified Europe with common economic "heat" and compatible tax regimes. The problem is that it was initiated in a half-arsed way into a union that was not ready for it.

The Euro came too soon, to use a complex economic term, and made a mess on the sheets. Within a coordinated federal Europe it would be sensible but the flaw was that Europe wasnt ready for it: but Germany was. The relatively low Euro exchange rate, dragged down by weaker economies also using the Euro, that was out of synch with German economic strength was great for Germany but noone else.

This is what I mean by the economic heat being compatible within the Eurozone. It wasnt and still isnt. But show me a German exporter who says the Euro was a failure and Ill show you a liar. The Euro is yet another ill applied notion: great in theory, inapplicable in practice. Country A cannot "borrow" Country B's economic weakness via a common currency to make its exports cheaper and not expect consequences. As ever, Germany wins and countries like Greece lose as their export pricing suffers the inverse.

Correct. It has always been in Germanys favour.

http://www.flassbeck-economics.com/the-brexit-and-a-black-friday-in-germany/

[roger_ramjet]

Thanks teacher do I get a gold star 😊

[Trickytreesreds]

Swale....you talk of rhe failure of the Euro. Is this the same Euro that has appreciated against sterling by 10% in the past two weeks?

The concept of the Euro is sound within a unified Europe with common economic "heat" and compatible tax regimes. The problem is that it was initiated in a half-arsed way into a union that was not ready for it.

The Euro came too soon, to use a complex economic term, and made a mess on the sheets. Within a coordinated federal Europe it would be sensible but the flaw was that Europe wasnt ready for it: but Germany was. The relatively low Euro exchange rate, dragged down by weaker economies also using the Euro, that was out of synch with German economic strength was great for Germany but noone else.

This is what I mean by the economic heat being compatible within the Eurozone. It wasnt and still isnt. But show me a German exporter who says the Euro was a failure and Ill show you a liar. The Euro is yet another ill applied notion: great in theory, inapplicable in practice. Country A cannot "borrow" Country B's economic weakness via a common currency to make its exports cheaper and not expect consequences. As ever, Germany wins and countries like Greece lose as their export pricing suffers the inverse.

Correct. It has always been in Germanys favour.

http://www.flassbeck-economics.com/the-brexit-and-a-black-friday-in-germany/

Also, Schultz has already made moves for more integration and the removal on Veto's
Big brother moves closer.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/686268/Schulz-Merkel-Tusk-EU-European-Union-Brexit-EU-referendum-politics

[Trickytreesreds]

Thanks teacher do I get a gold star ��

Not until you win a European trophy ;-)

[southernram22]

agree but still to be shown how staying will help us in anyway except line pockets of rich and the greed of brussels.

[AngryRam]

Not until you win a European trophy ;-)

Watney Cup... Wernt the Jocks in that??

[ramspride]

Think you're playing this down too much swale

Truth is, no one actually knows. Also the fact that our laws are tailored in line with EU regulations and policies in fear of EU courts of law, which always supersedes ours.
If this was allowed to go on, the Superstate would eventually swallow and enforce a European law on everyone. So talking about the here and now is plain daft. Look further ahead, look at the plan and what is lined up,
We got out in time. un CHECKED THERE WAS NO ESCAPE FROM THE "PLAN"

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-w...influenced-eu/

Thanks Tricky what a very interesting website which is a independent fact finding charity so no axe to grind. Many hours reading but certainly facts which neither remain or leave bothered to publish before the referendum. Why not? It may have made many people's minds up. But I suppose either side would only publish the facts that support their views.

[Andy_Faber]

Watney Cup... Wernt the Jocks in that??

That was the Texaco Cup but we won it anyway

[AngryRam]

That was the Texaco Cup but we won it anyway

That's the puppy... Thanks Andy..

Eat yer heart out Tricky.. Europes finest!