OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Yes that is an odd one - you'd think that a slur based on the colour of someone's skin would be deemed racist, but I'm sure an argument will emerge that there's an underlying whiteness, thus a white person (assuming Swale to be so) cannot be racist toward another person with underlying whiteness. I guess its a bit like calling someone coming back from a particularly tan creating holiday a P***i, and that not being racist either. Its a hard one to figure out.

maybe its just anti semitic, or is it pro semitic, to liken someone to a pork product

[Geoff Parkstone]

What I’ve noticed on yougov and other such platforms is that whatever the balance of the argument, the liberal side just won’t ‘leave it alone’ with pushing their POV

God, that sounds so familiar

[ramAnag]

Andy, may I suggest you read the comments in the daily topics areas. Then perhaps you'll see what I mean.
My point is more about, yes the left/Liberal intellectuals love sites like this.
So it gets swamped with the bias of their opinion. Remain/hate the Tories/refugees welcome here/ Gay rights trump everything/ multicultualism is wonderful etc.
That's fine except it gets posted in papers, as YOUGOV makes "startling" prediction lol

A prime example for me, was the Scots survey on there showing Independence was as high as 69% for leave.
Well it would be if enough SNP junkies, take the time to take part.


RA- ‘Is everything rosy in the EU as well?’ Of course it isn’t. Who has said otherwise and what has that got to do with it?

It's got everything to do with it. Germany for example is predicted to perform woefully and is underperforming against Meditteranean countries at the moment. Will it continue? I certainly doubt that.
So had we remained, how would you be blaming UK struggles?

( duh, I forgot the Tories)

Tricky...could you please give it a rest with the diversionary tactics?

My posts were explicitly about the apparent change in attitude towards Brexit within this country. I know you don’t accept the outcome of the relevant polls but what may, or may not, be happening in Germany and the ‘Mediterranean countries’ has nothing to do with that.

If you insist on bringing up the performance of the Tories...well they’ve been in charge for over eleven years now. You might think they’re doing ever so well and everything is the fault of Labour/Remain/and multicultural gay refugees...but the latest inflation figures, Johnson’s own ‘car in a ditch’ admission over Paterson and sleaze, the HS2 debacle, the fact that we’ll all be facing an effective pay cut next April, our frankly disturbing position in the Covid ‘league tables’, the current state of the NHS etc, etc suggest otherwise.

[Trickytreesreds]

Yes that is an odd one - you'd think that a slur based on the colour of someone's skin would be deemed racist, but I'm sure an argument will emerge that there's an underlying whiteness, thus a white person (assuming Swale to be so) cannot be racist toward another person with underlying whiteness. I guess its a bit like calling someone coming back from a particularly tan creating holiday a P***i, and that not being racist either. Its a hard one to figure out.

maybe its just anti semitic, or is it pro semitic, to liken someone to a pork product

That has reminded me of an incident watching a game in the 90's.
Bryan Roy, clean through rounded the keeper and put it wide.
The groans rang through the stands, then 5 rows behind me a voice boomed- "you useless black ****"
Frowns appeared and folks slowly turned around, to see this Huge Jamaican guy stood up pointing his finger.

He glanced around at everyone staring at him. Broke into a grin and said, " bet you wish you could say that?"
Then sat down

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky...could you please give it a rest with the diversionary tactics?

My posts were explicitly about the apparent change in attitude towards Brexit within this country. I know you don’t accept the outcome of the relevant polls but what may, or may not, be happening in Germany and the ‘Mediterranean countries’ has nothing to do with that.

If you insist on bringing up the performance of the Tories...well they’ve been in charge for over eleven years now. You might think they’re doing ever so well and everything is the fault of Labour/Remain/and multicultural gay refugees...but the latest inflation figures, Johnson’s own ‘car in a ditch’ admission over Paterson and sleaze, the HS2 debacle, the fact that we’ll all be facing an effective pay cut next April, our frankly disturbing position in the Covid ‘league tables’, the current state of the NHS etc, etc suggest otherwise.

No sorry, you're wrong. You seem to be the only one saying so.
You came across a completely irrelevent poll, suggesting that opinion has swung in the favour non -Brexit was wrong.
Not only have I disputed the relevence of this poll, as being useless. I have merely highlighted that the question involved is without a solid base of footing.
Too many variables, that you don't want to talk about, as it taints your delight at finding this poll.
My point is perfectly relevent, that UK performance is no different to any other European country, though we have had to contend with EU shenanigans as well.

As for the Tories, they are in trouble. Personally, Johnson will be outed in months. If you believe that means folks are flocking back to Labout, you're wrong on that as well

[ramAnag]

No sorry, you're wrong. You seem to be the only one saying so.
You came across a completely irrelevent poll, suggesting that opinion has swung in the favour non -Brexit was wrong.
Not only have I disputed the relevence of this poll, as being useless. I have merely highlighted that the question involved is without a solid base of footing.
Too many variables, that you don't want to talk about, as it taints your delight at finding this poll.
My point is perfectly relevent, that UK performance is no different to any other European country, though we have had to contend with EU shenanigans as well.

As for the Tories, they are in trouble. Personally, Johnson will be outed in months. If you believe that means folks are flocking back to Labout, you're wrong on that as well

Jeez...talk about nonsensical denial.

I cited two polls...not one. How and why are they ‘irrelevant’ and how can you say, ‘the question involved is without a solid basis of footing’. What does that even mean?

You say that ‘UK performance is no different to any other European country’ moments after suggesting that ‘Germany is underperforming against Mediterranean countries’...you can’t have it both ways, or are these ‘Mediterranean countries’ non European?

You’re making no sense. When and where have I ever suggested that ‘folks are flocking back to Labour’ and what does, ‘Personally, Johnson will be outed in months’ mean?

All I’ve said is that the polls suggest a change in heart amongst Brits about the ‘wisdom’ of Brexit. Put down your scattergun and just address that...sensibly.

[Trickytreesreds]

Jeez...talk about nonsensical denial.

I cited two polls...not one. How and why are they ‘irrelevant’ and how can you say, ‘the question involved is without a solid basis of footing’. What does that even mean?

You say that ‘UK performance is no different to any other European country’ moments after suggesting that ‘Germany is underperforming against Mediterranean countries’...you can’t have it both ways, or are these ‘Mediterranean countries’ non European?

You’re making no sense. When and where have I ever suggested that ‘folks are flocking back to Labour’ and what does, ‘Personally, Johnson will be outed in months’ mean?

All I’ve said is that the polls suggest a change in heart amongst Brits about the ‘wisdom’ of Brexit. Put down your scattergun and just address that...sensibly.

NO you're right RA, you always are.

Like a broken clock, you'll be right twice a day at least.
It's all unravelling in your head. You carry on. Has Santa had your letter yet?

Blah blah blah blah.

I'm out of this one. If you say I've changed my mind, I must have.

[ramAnag]

NO you're right RA, you always are.

Like a broken clock, you'll be right twice a day at least.
It's all unravelling in your head. You carry on. Has Santa had your letter yet?

Blah blah blah blah.

I'm out of this one. If you say I've changed my mind, I must have.

Okay...you slope off in a typically bad tempered and diversionary grump if you like.

I’ve never said...‘I’m right’, although obviously all of us on here, by definition, think we are because we’re putting forward our opinions on a forum. Neither am I saying that you’ve ‘changed your mind’...just that one particular thing you said involved a clear contradiction.

I’ve simply drawn attention to the findings of two polls. I contributed to neither of them in any shape or form. Just read it all back and work out for yourself whether what you’ve said makes sense or whether perhaps you might just be a tiny bit rattled by the ‘findings’.

[swaledale]

I know exactly what you mean, especially the frankly boring recanting of the liberal viewpoint in the media and on mainstream TV - but it does work the other way too to some extent

What I’ve noticed on yougov and other such platforms is that whatever the balance of the argument, the liberal side just won’t ‘leave it alone’ with pushing their POV

The fact that you use the term "liberal" in a derogatory manner, says a lot about you, non of it good!

You do sound like exactly what you are, a relic stuck in the past unable to to come to terms with things that the vast majority of society have accepted long ago.

Your frankly boring repeated claim that the media recants the liberal view point is factually wrong. It reflects your narrow stuck in the past mindset, your obsession with the BBC and ignores the fact that the majority of the media is right leaning if not demonstrably right wing and pushing that agenda. I do understand how hard it must be for you to see ethnic or gay presenters in the media, funny I don't generally notice them or get bothered by them, but then maybe my life experience is a tad broader than yours? Or maybe your just not very good at hiding your prejudice!

Its rather pathetic that an old white guy, moans about societal changes and perceives them to be "pushed", like Canute, against the tide your pointlessly flailing against such changes, even though the impact upon you is minimal and by any empathetic human being welcomed. But no you have to play the poor maligned white guy, not a good look!

[swaledale]

Okay...you slope off in a typically bad tempered and diversionary grump if you like.

I’ve never said...‘I’m right’, although obviously all of us on here, by definition, think we are because we’re putting forward our opinions on a forum. Neither am I saying that you’ve ‘changed your mind’...just that one particular thing you said involved a clear contradiction.

I’ve simply drawn attention to the findings of two polls. I contributed to neither of them in any shape or form. Just read it all back and work out for yourself whether what you’ve said makes sense or whether perhaps you might just be a tiny bit rattled by the ‘findings’.

Not sure why you bother even debating this with Thicky! His grasp of real world politic is shaky at the best of times! I'd thought he would be happy id he is enjoying his recreation in Thailand!

[swaledale]

Tend to agree Tricky, its going about as I had expected - more downs than ups but we're playing this game for 90 minutes, and being a goal down after 5 minutes doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Things will flatten out over time I'm sure - what the landscape will look like in 10 years time is what we really need to be concerned about. We may well flatten down into a worse financial position, but personally I've always expected that. Its the price to pay to get out of the USE and the horrors of tax and currency harmonisation, totally integrated foreign and defence policies.

The bitchfighting currently going on across the channel over fishing and refugees is entirely predictible - after all noone wants the refugees and brexit has simply give the French carte Blanche to encourage them over the water. But hopefully that will resolve itself sensibly even though we no longer share the same Junkerian leadership.

Its such a shame that the EU trade integration and economic cooperation plans dreamed of 60 odd years ago got driven so far off course by those with a vision of grosseres Europa, Or is is lebensraum?

One flaw with that, the UK was never going down the road of tax and currency harmonisation or totally integrated foreign and defence policies, so thats a red herring. I very much doubt that the majority of members of the EU will agree that in any case.

Though of course cooperation politically and on defence is actually whats realistically required in order to counter the influence of states such as Russia and China and also if european countries don't want to be totally reliant upon the USA for security going forward.

The fishing and Northern island dispute is down to the UK, and is a tactic designed to throw red meat to those Brexiteers stupid enough to swallow it and distract from the utter shambles the current government is making of Brexit.

Of course we could have left the EU and those imaginary horrors which you mention and had the benefit of trade integration and common market and hence avoided the complications and costs to the UK, but no our oh so stupid leaders decided that wasn't enough.

As for the refugees, well suffice to say that at some stage the Uk and Europe are going to have to bite the bullet on these, even if purely on humanitarian grounds, anyone who thinks europe can build a wall and stop refugees entering (even if one thinks that acceptable) is living in a fantasy world.

I should be surprised that nominally sentient people believe whats portrayed in the right wing media, but then when one inhabits a world of "little england" and thinks complex issues can be resolved so easily and that its better to do so on ones own rather than working with other countries I'm not.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure why you bother even debating this with Thicky! His grasp of real world politic is shaky at the best of times! I'd thought he would be happy id he is enjoying his recreation in Thailand!

No-one here takes your poisonous bile on other subjects particularly seriously but if you carry on with your insinuations (and yes I do have the history on it) I'll take action. You think you're being subtle - you aren't

[Trickytreesreds]

I do wish folks would stop labelling every illegal entry attempt into the UK and Europe as "refugees". Most of them are anything but refugees.
The current Polish border situation is farcical. Travelling to Belarus on a tourist visa, then EXPECTING to be able to cross the Polish border and on to Germany/wherever?
It is exactly language like this, that the left /liberal muppets convey, in order to win the "moralistic" argument.

The first job of any government is to protect it's borders and citizens. So no, I'm not buying that one.

One of your " failures of asylum" , blew himself up outside a hospital this week. It could have been an absolute nightmare, had it gone to plan.

One of your " asylum children " blew himself up at an Arianna Grande concert killing 23 people and injuring 1017

One of your "failures of aslum", stabbed to death 3 gay men in a park in Reading.

The crime explosion in Europe is attributed to "refugees". So much so Denmark has said, no more. Sweden are deporting like mad.

I don't wash this.

[MadAmster]

Whatever happened to the good old days when people whose asylum requests were refused got sent back home on the next available flight?

[Trickytreesreds]

Whatever happened to the good old days when people whose asylum requests were refused got sent back home on the next available flight?

Not sure if you are joking or not Maddy, but the point is valid.
The hospital bomber- Iraqi mother, Jordanian citizen, had lived in Iraq. Claimed to be a Syrian, asylum refused 2015. Sectioned for threating behaviour with a knife. Tried the Christian conversion card 2017, failed again.
Why/how the hell is he or any others still here?
Why, well it's the ECHR act and dodgy lawyers exploiting the system.
We have to bin this now. It's based around asylum laws drawn up in 1951. They are antiquated and obsolete. After WW2 and the cold war, yes it worked. But it is now a tool for exploitation that even criminals abuse.

In effect, they keep coming, because they know, how hard it is to eject them. Something that Europe is now a victim of its own doing.