OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[macstheman]

Strangely enough I went for in but this discussion has made me think about it more than the pre-referendum crap did (from both sides!) and I have to say that I would now seriously consider voting out!! It is all about the long term - in the short term the economic problems will test us and I agree that the young will probably suffer significantly but in the long term I believe NOW that we will all be better off. Asking young people to think long term though is impossible as they are designed as a species for the here and now. That is how nature works and so it is inevitable that they are the strongest voices against the result. Hopefully, if we do exit, they will benefit in the longer term and will be able to say the right decision was taken!! I will vote leave next time!!

[ramAnag]

Strangely enough I went for in but this discussion has made me think about it more than the pre-referendum crap did (from both sides!) and I have to say that I would now seriously consider voting out!! It is all about the long term - in the short term the economic problems will test us and I agree that the young will probably suffer significantly but in the long term I believe NOW that we will all be better off. Asking young people to think long term though is impossible as they are designed as a species for the here and now. That is how nature works and so it is inevitable that they are the strongest voices against the result. Hopefully, if we do exit, they will benefit in the longer term and will be able to say the right decision was taken!! I will vote leave next time!!

Obviously don't agree with your conclusion mac but I do agree that there have been two or three EU threads on here that have provoked more sensible discussion than the 'pre-referendum crap' did.

Adi...you can mend or rebuild the bridge, make it stronger...even include a gate perhaps. With the 'unknown territory' (your description) you run the risk of becoming seriously lost and wasting a great deal of time before eventually you hopefully return to journeying in the right direction.

[Andy_Faber]

agreed, and lots of other supposedly more intellectual forums

[macstheman]

Rather than have demonstrations and marches maybe the Remains should do what Nigel Farage did and start a new political party. Instead of UKIP (obviously) it could be called the United Kingdom Against Independence Party. I am sure it would have plenty of support, will start winning a few Bye-Elections and maybe achieve its' aims? That's the way I would go if I was a committed Remain. It would be Democracy speaking!!

[southernram22]

your opinion 17 million decline to agree awks

[southernram22]

i wont change my vote awks and a second referendum only leads to wider splits in our country. than the first one did what happens awks if even more people vote to leave will the remainers just sulk even more. so you are saying you like being run by bueraucrats from brussels that interfere with everything this country does . we voted in 1973 to be part of a ten nation trading bloc not a federal states of europe that some countries want . the problem being the eu has become bloated with countries not paying there way and some like greece bankrupt and mrs bailing them out to save face. i thought it rather amusing that when asked most of youngsters could not list reasons were better off in europe ?

[ramAnag]

Rather than have demonstrations and marches maybe the Remains should do what Nigel Farage did and start a new political party. Instead of UKIP (obviously) it could be called the United Kingdom Against Independence Party. I am sure it would have plenty of support, will start winning a few Bye-Elections and maybe achieve its' aims? That's the way I would go if I was a committed Remain. It would be Democracy speaking!!

Well it was sensible. UKAIP...as opposed to having the majority of the Tory Party and vast majority of Labour, Liberal, Green, SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Northern Ireland Assembly members, who were all democratically elected just over a year ago, in favour of 'Remain' already you mean. Why isn't that 'democracy speaking'?

[southernram22]

because the vote was given to the people by the politicians so they should and have to repect the outcome . the main problem is easy to nail down and why defeat happened it was the sheer arrogance of the remain side that they could ever lose and now they have they cannot accept it. even with the messing around with the extension of the registering date when it became apparent things might not be going the way they wanted .i should think this thread should be closed bloomer as were never going to agree on this . here on a football site i personally dont want to fall out with anyone in or out well perhaps awks but hes a red. seriously i respect others views perhaps they could start to respect ours ?.

[ramAnag]

I respect your view southern. Disagree with you but I respect it and I think the whole debate has been conducted respectfully. Still like you to explain your comment about me 'returning to the beloved motherland' though.

[Trickytreesreds]

Well it was sensible. UKAIP...as opposed to having the majority of the Tory Party and vast majority of Labour, Liberal, Green, SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Northern Ireland Assembly members, who were all democratically elected just over a year ago, in favour of 'Remain' already you mean. Why isn't that 'democracy speaking'?

This is good, what about All Remainers Squeal Exponentially

[southernram22]

oh i see the bit your upset with it was a gereralistaion not aimed at you i meant if people did not respect the decision they were againt democracy.

[macstheman]

Actually ramAnag it was a serious suggestion. After all individuals who wanted OUT chose to do it through a political party and by entering Local and General Elections. That they eventually saw their ambitions realised is Democracy in Action, it is no different to what the SNP has achieved in Scotland. Now, one may not agree with UKIP or the SNP, but they have achieved it through the generally recognised system in the UK. So, yes it was(I believe) a reasonable suggestion which if I was considerably younger I would consider if I was as committed as some appear to be. In my time we have never had a government with more than 50% of those eligible to vote so the need to have it for this vote seems arbitrary.
Sorry if you consider it otherwise.

[ramAnag]

It was a serious response too, mac. That's one of the ridiculous contradictions about all this to my mind. May 2015, at the last General Election, UKIP got the grand total of one seat and Farage couldn't get himself elected, not even in Thanet. The vast majority of all MPs who were elected then were and are pro - 'Remain' and yet just thirteen months later just over one third of that same electorate has voted for us to 'Leave'. Seems the matter of 'sovereignty' was high on the 'Leave' agenda, by which I imagine is meant the 'Sovereignty of Parliament'.
Bearing in mind that the result of any referendum is only ever advisory it will be interesting to see the 'Leave' reaction should Parliament decide to use such 'sovereignty' to decide that the 'recommendations' of the 17.5m are not actually in the best interests of the country.

[southernram22]

tbh im waiting for that as well because its political meltdown time a general election would have to be called and all confidence in any political party lost. the main problem would be that a leave party would spring up and win many seats

[ramAnag]

oh i see the bit your upset with it was a gereralistaion not aimed at you i meant if people did not respect the decision they were againt democracy.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. Couldn't understand why I had to go back to Lancashire.
Not that I'm actually against democracy btw.