OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Personally I don't feel I'm 'bitter' MoP...I question the wisdom of the use and outcome of the referendum but that seems reasonable not bitter. Should we all just 'give up' when things don't go our way?
I do accept that more voted for Brexit than Remain but I still struggle with the concept of being led in one direction by just over one third of the electorate and have yet to have it explained to me how that is 'democratic'.

As for Farage telling it 'how it is' and that's why 'the country got behind him', that, imo, is untrue. Farage gave us a paranoid, version of what he believes is happening to the UK and some 'swallowed' it. 'He' wasn't 'pushed over the winning line' anymore than Gove, Johnson and IDS and if 'the country' is so much behind him how come he has never managed to get himself elected as an MP?
With regard to people 'laughing at him', his speech on that issue to the European Parliament was one of the most arrogant and distasteful I've ever heard. I've certainly never laughed at him...but then divisiveness, bitterness and negativity is rarely funny to me.

Rubbish, who could blame him with these arrogant dicks?
He has fought a one sided battle against these plebs for years. They lied/scoffed/laughed/insulted but he took it.
I'd have done the same, they asked for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltokomw4UoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M4hExU-tfg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwduxnXpESM

The lesson was there for them to be learned. If they want their superstate, they have to bend(a lot). The eastern bloc countries won't put up with this for much longer.
Junker/Tusk/Merkel blamed Cameron for all this. Based purely on the fact he granted a referendum in the first place. In their arrogance, they believe we shouldn't be allowed an opinion and say so on how to run our own lives.
That is scary and so undemocratic, it smacks of dictatorship.

Democracy is about voting. The EU don't want to give me a vote. So you arguing, how one third can be considered democratic makes your request look, very laughable.
Maybe you want them to force an Ireland or Denmark situation, where we keep voting till the dummy spitters win?
Check the euro voting figures. Most votes are won with just over half majority's, with a 2/3 turn out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union

I get it, that you don't like it. But ffs, stop crying now. You'll die from dehydration.

[Akwesasne]

Im not convinced you could use on line voting systems without compromising the integrity of the secret ballot. Sure you could replace the pencil and paper with a computer screen at a polling station but you would still need to confirm your identity and right to vote seperately in a non linked manner. Sure as hell couldnt use your phone anonymously.

Anyway where would the fun be if 10 minutes after the polls closed the results were known across the country. Sunderland would cease to have any relevance.

I don't think Internet voting would be a very good idea. It would be just like to trying to contact HMRC just before any deadlines they have. Everyone is trying to do it so the services gets swamped and inoperable. Much better to have a a nice stroll down to the voting booth instead of waiting for the queue trying to log in to disperse.

[swaledale]

Rubbish, who could blame him with these arrogant dicks?
He has fought a one sided battle against these plebs for years. They lied/scoffed/laughed/insulted but he took it.
I'd have done the same, they asked for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltokomw4UoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M4hExU-tfg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwduxnXpESM

The lesson was there for them to be learned. If they want their superstate, they have to bend(a lot). The eastern bloc countries won't put up with this for much longer.
Junker/Tusk/Merkel blamed Cameron for all this. Based purely on the fact he granted a referendum in the first place. In their arrogance, they believe we shouldn't be allowed an opinion and say so on how to run our own lives.
That is scary and so undemocratic, it smacks of dictatorship.

Democracy is about voting. The EU don't want to give me a vote. So you arguing, how one third can be considered democratic makes your request look, very laughable.
Maybe you want them to force an Ireland or Denmark situation, where we keep voting till the dummy spitters win?
Check the euro voting figures. Most votes are won with just over half majority's, with a 2/3 turn out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union

I get it, that you don't like it. But ffs, stop crying now. You'll die from dehydration.

Well Tricky in my book anyone who thinks Farage has credibility has at least half a screw loose - where is he now??? He has played his own little game for years, milking the system for payment whilst pretending to be a "man of the people", he is a nasty divisive and lying toe rag - a public school educated ex stock broker who has played fast and loose with people lives for his is own fun.

His tirade at the Eu was an embarassment to this count its how children play politics.

I get that the little englanders are afraid of a federal europe, it threatens their imaginary powers, funny how the states has prospered as a collection of federal states over the years - free movement of goods capital and people, countries cooperating with each other rather than competing, it sounds terrible. Mind you if your circle of experience is limited to living within 30 miles of where you were born with a fortnight in a foreign resort that is basically UK abroad I can see how different cultures might frighten you!


As for being a dummy spitter, thats a laugh, I'm still trying to figure out what the Brexits think they have won? My original comment made before the vote stands - be careful what you wish for as you've got it now, will you think the consequences worth it?

[swaledale]

Don't take this the wrong way Swaley.. I don't know you, have never met you but you seem an intelligent fella. But when you say you are yet to hear a coherent argument.. IMO you don't seem to be that receptive to listening.
Agree the youth are a lot less nationalistic than this old git.. Maybe that is a good thing.
Filling in a few forms albeit time consuming should not put people off if they want something enough.. If it does then they are probably doing the wrong thing anyway. The general point is that the world has not stopped spinning, opportunities are there, they just need to be taken. They maybe slightly different than a year ago but still there.

Angry I dont take what you say the wrong way, you make strong points and I tip'em back at you, no offence meant or taken.

Oh I've been listening, very closely - I hear we have to obey EU rules - when you join a club with mutual benefits its normal to agree to play to the same set of rules - none has yet said how these rules have harmed them.

£360 million that could be spent on the health service - actually less than half that and in the past we ahve benefited when our economy hasn't been so good. Anyway theres plenty of examples of millions being spent in the Uk which could be better spent!

European super state - well we ahve a veto, some say it wont always be the case, but predicting what will happen in 10, 20 or 30 years is not a fact. Again whats the objection to closer cooperation would a federal eurpe be that bad (just asking) r is it just the idea of "johnny foreigner" having a say in how we operate (irrespective of whether we benefit from it) that jars people?

Why increase the burden and cost on businesses and people for the sake of "independence"? If by that logic we have to get visa's and export licences etc etc for movement of people and goods to Scotland is that OK? Or is the fact they (sort of) speak the same lingo as us make it different?

Of course the world hasn't stopped spinning and life will go on - Zimbadwe's been a mess for years I'm not sure anyone would actually want to move there but its still there and life goes on. Extreme example but an illustration of how people dismiss the economic consequences of the Brexit vote.

For the record i thought the remain campaign as ****e, wheeling in Obama etc. was a mistake and whilst the recession warning is likely to prove to be true, it would have been better to outline the positives.

Cameron will be remembered as the Tory who gambled with this country's future for party political reasons and lost, glad he's gone.

[Trickytreesreds]

Well Tricky in my book anyone who thinks Farage has credibility has at least half a screw loose - where is he now??? He has played his own little game for years, milking the system for payment whilst pretending to be a "man of the people", he is a nasty divisive and lying toe rag - a public school educated ex stock broker who has played fast and loose with people lives for his is own fun.

His tirade at the Eu was an embarassment to this count its how children play politics.

I get that the little englanders are afraid of a federal europe, it threatens their imaginary powers, funny how the states has prospered as a collection of federal states over the years - free movement of goods capital and people, countries cooperating with each other rather than competing, it sounds terrible. Mind you if your circle of experience is limited to living within 30 miles of where you were born with a fortnight in a foreign resort that is basically UK abroad I can see how different cultures might frighten you!


As for being a dummy spitter, thats a laugh, I'm still trying to figure out what the Brexits think they have won? My original comment made before the vote stands - be careful what you wish for as you've got it now, will you think the consequences worth it?

Wow how condescending was that?
He WAS AND STILL IS an elected EMP. Voted for by us that wanted him there. So you're doing it again, going against an election system and scoffing at folks you enjoy belittling.
Show me his lies and I;ll counteract anything you say with something your beloved remainers said and MORE!!!
Unlike most MP's and Euro prats, he has had a real job and actually knows what he's talking about when arguing business. All the crap about the steel industry was hilarious. Listening to your heros and their plans. As he kept pointing out, the government couldn't step in, because it wasn't ALLOWED TO by the EU.
His spat was nothing to the arrogance and ridicule those plebs preached.

As for the little Englanders jibe, you mean over half the country then?
Since when did free trade have anything to do with federalism?
When we joined, it was for a common market over 9 countries. It is now the equivalent of a Soviet controlled pack.

As for myself, you know nothing about me sunshine. I travel far and wide, business and pleasure. YES EVEN TO COUNTRIES NOT IN THE BLOODY EU.
It's ever so easy. You don't need an interrogation or anything. Just a simple check of your credentials. Why the hell do you need free movement of no checks to travel? The only ones in inconveniences are criminals and despots.

I think you're living in the wrong country. So please, take advantage of your free movement and shift your arse to Merkels utopia. You'll obviously be a lot happier.

I'll quite happily take my chances in this terrible place.

[roger_ramjet]

Swale - toe rag maybe but not an ex stockbroker...he worked on metal exchange I think you'll find.

[swaledale]

Wow how condescending was that?
He WAS AND STILL IS an elected EMP. Voted for by us that wanted him there. So you're doing it again, going against an election system and scoffing at folks you enjoy belittling.
Show me his lies and I;ll counteract anything you say with something your beloved remainers said and MORE!!!
Unlike most MP's and Euro prats, he has had a real job and actually knows what he's talking about when arguing business. All the crap about the steel industry was hilarious. Listening to your heros and their plans. As he kept pointing out, the government couldn't step in, because it wasn't ALLOWED TO by the EU.
His spat was nothing to the arrogance and ridicule those plebs preached.

As for the little Englanders jibe, you mean over half the country then?
Since when did free trade have anything to do with federalism?
When we joined, it was for a common market over 9 countries. It is now the equivalent of a Soviet controlled pack.

As for myself, you know nothing about me sunshine. I travel far and wide, business and pleasure. YES EVEN TO COUNTRIES NOT IN THE BLOODY EU.
It's ever so easy. You don't need an interrogation or anything. Just a simple check of your credentials. Why the hell do you need free movement of no checks to travel? The only ones in inconveniences are criminals and despots.

I think you're living in the wrong country. So please, take advantage of your free movement and shift your arse to Merkels utopia. You'll obviously be a lot happier.

I'll quite happily take my chances in this terrible place.

I think you mean MEP and that there were enough numpty's to vote for him says it really. My comment stands the guy is a joke and a bad one at that so if you hold him up as a role model, do remember that millions voted for Hitler and that turned out well didn't it.

Your coment and his comment about the steel industry is only half the story and not strictly true - as our democratically elected government had not actually done what was required to assist and they could step in- in fact Brexit has meant that the deal worked out is in danger - my how the half truths come out, dig yourself deeper why not?


Eh last time I counted the EU vote it wasn't anywhere near half the country, it was just over 52% of 72% who voted, now last time I did the maths that isn't half the country!

Soviet style controlled??? WTF are you on about? It could not be more different, I'll give you a clue all the countries in it, including the UK elect their own governments - jeez you ahve swallowed Farage's lies and myths hook line and sinker.

Eh we still have border controls, or at least thats what it looked like when I passed through Heathrow a couple of weeks ago - but conveniently you forget such facts!

I happen to like the Uk, its just I've moved on from the days of empire and recognise that economic prosserity and a better way of life is not reliant on simple nationalist thinking.

And yes when it comes to someone like yourself spouting utter *******s and citing Farage as the example of a free thinking ideals man who we should all pay homage to, frankly your lucky I'm only condescending!

[macstheman]

As I've said before I fully support economic union but not political union which is the stated aim. Even Gorbachev expressed bewilderment at the direction the EU was taking.

[Trickytreesreds]

I think you mean MEP and that there were enough numpty's to vote for him says it really. My comment stands the guy is a joke and a bad one at that so if you hold him up as a role model, do remember that millions voted for Hitler and that turned out well didn't it.

Your coment and his comment about the steel industry is only half the story and not strictly true - as our democratically elected government had not actually done what was required to assist and they could step in- in fact Brexit has meant that the deal worked out is in danger - my how the half truths come out, dig yourself deeper why not?


Eh last time I counted the EU vote it wasn't anywhere near half the country, it was just over 52% of 72% who voted, now last time I did the maths that isn't half the country!

Soviet style controlled??? WTF are you on about? It could not be more different, I'll give you a clue all the countries in it, including the UK elect their own governments - jeez you ahve swallowed Farage's lies and myths hook line and sinker.

Eh we still have border controls, or at least thats what it looked like when I passed through Heathrow a couple of weeks ago - but conveniently you forget such facts!

I happen to like the Uk, its just I've moved on from the days of empire and recognise that economic prosserity and a better way of life is not reliant on simple nationalist thinking.

And yes when it comes to someone like yourself spouting utter *******s and citing Farage as the example of a free thinking ideals man who we should all pay homage to, frankly your lucky I'm only condescending!

You obviously hate it here Swale, we aren't worthy of your arrogance. Leave there's a good lad

[Trickytreesreds]

As I've said before I fully support economic union but not political union which is the stated aim. Even Gorbachev expressed bewilderment at the direction the EU was taking.

Mikhail Gorbachev
“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”

that's the one. He'll ignore it as it doesn't suit his soap box
BTW steel, don't lie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G72NucLEGM

Here, chill swale

[swaledale]

yeah your right Rog, commodities broker, mostly steel it seems another one creaming it off the top!

Do you live in the South east region then Triky seeing as you voted for farage? Mind you IF you did actually vote for the **** then all hope is gone!

Ah so a Soviet Leader expresses an opinion and thats a FACT? Mm bit like May claiming her government will work for the poor the disenfranchised and not the rich and powerful! She said it, it will be quoted in history but is it a fact?

OK go on then Tricky how is the EU like the Soviet Union was? How exactly is it similar to a federation of states that are ruled by a dictator?

Also do you think that the Eu represents a stronger buffer against Russia or not? And if the Russians thinks its a mistake, why are they frightened of its influence?

Political union always was the point, the view being that this would prevent what happened before - the debate is the extent of that union...oh no we are going to pull out, so I guess thats us left out of the debate then, mm sounds sensible to me.


By the way if you take the time to READ the BBC piece on aid to the Steel industry, you will see that a simplistic EU rules prevented the government helping out the steel industry is not the whole truth. But the lik many onthe brexit side, lets just pick the bits that suit our argument and ignore the rest!!!

I'm perfectly chilled and having a laugh at you holding Farage up as THE MAN!!

BTW sod off back yo your own board if you don't like the debate!

[southernram22]

while i agree that the truth never comes out from either side the new prime minister seems to have grasped the situation and started to move forwards with her appointments etc . ie removing dead wood. oppurtunic politicians sturgeon and mcguiness are just that. what the country needs now is to move forwards whichever way you voted . its done will not be reversed in near future ?

[Trickytreesreds]

yeah your right Rog, commodities broker, mostly steel it seems another one creaming it off the top!

Do you live in the South east region then Triky seeing as you voted for farage? Mind you IF you did actually vote for the **** then all hope is gone!

Ah so a Soviet Leader expresses an opinion and thats a FACT? Mm bit like May claiming her government will work for the poor the disenfranchised and not the rich and powerful! She said it, it will be quoted in history but is it a fact?

OK go on then Tricky how is the EU like the Soviet Union was? How exactly is it similar to a federation of states that are ruled by a dictator?

Also do you think that the Eu represents a stronger buffer against Russia or not? And if the Russians thinks its a mistake, why are they frightened of its influence?

Political union always was the point, the view being that this would prevent what happened before - the debate is the extent of that union...oh no we are going to pull out, so I guess thats us left out of the debate then, mm sounds sensible to me.


By the way if you take the time to READ the BBC piece on aid to the Steel industry, you will see that a simplistic EU rules prevented the government helping out the steel industry is not the whole truth. But the lik many onthe brexit side, lets just pick the bits that suit our argument and ignore the rest!!!

I'm perfectly chilled and having a laugh at you holding Farage up as THE MAN!!

BTW sod off back yo your own board if you don't like the debate!

1. nope why would you think I came from the south east? Do you live in Brussels?
2. the soviet leader gave his opinion, whilst leading the break up of the USSR and it's failings.
It's puzzling that the far left hated the EU now embrace it.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/the-strange-death-of-left-wing-euroscepticism/

The comparison with the soviet union, is a amalgamation of countries under one rule/law/system/economics/army. Its comparity to the politburo has validity in its self appointed leaders and part hymn sheet. Even you aint that dense.
3. The EU is not a buffer, it goes out of its way to provoke Russia with it's policies and attempts to swallow up all the old iron curtain country's. The Ukraine being the latest, even with its population of Russians. If any is going to kick something off, it's the EU. One army will only provoke this further. Exactly what is wrong with NATO anyway? Its worked for 70 years without these muppets wanting control.
4. I did read the piece. The governement did nothing because the grey areas said they couldn't. The loss of 35 000 jobs not considered sever enough.
5. Laugh at me all you like, Farage achieved what he said he'd do, you idiot failed and lost his job.
6. Don't tell me what to do deary. Your pathetic hissy fits aren't even debate. You refuse to give an inch even in defeat. What next, Kamikaze attacks in desperation.
It's you thats making us laugh. Enough of your own have tried telling you that.

Here's a nice song for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

[swaledale]

1. nope why would you think I came from the south east? Do you live in Brussels?
2. the soviet leader gave his opinion, whilst leading the break up of the USSR and it's failings.
It's puzzling that the far left hated the EU now embrace it.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/the-strange-death-of-left-wing-euroscepticism/

The comparison with the soviet union, is a amalgamation of countries under one rule/law/system/economics/army. Its comparity to the politburo has validity in its self appointed leaders and part hymn sheet. Even you aint that dense.
3. The EU is not a buffer, it goes out of its way to provoke Russia with it's policies and attempts to swallow up all the old iron curtain country's. The Ukraine being the latest, even with its population of Russians. If any is going to kick something off, it's the EU. One army will only provoke this further. Exactly what is wrong with NATO anyway? Its worked for 70 years without these muppets wanting control.
4. I did read the piece. The governement did nothing because the grey areas said they couldn't. The loss of 35 000 jobs not considered sever enough.
5. Laugh at me all you like, Farage achieved what he said he'd do, you idiot failed and lost his job.
6. Don't tell me what to do deary. Your pathetic hissy fits aren't even debate. You refuse to give an inch even in defeat. What next, Kamikaze attacks in desperation.
It's you thats making us laugh. Enough of your own have tried telling you that.

Here's a nice song for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

Oh dear, you do like to play fast and loose with the facts don't you?

1. You said you voted for Farage as MEP obviously you didnt still whats a stretching of the facts eh?
2. The far left???? Not sure cameron is far left but then your understanding of politics is a little sketchy, Corbyn is lefter than most and ws clearly luke warm about the Eu whilst recognising that there were good things as well as bad things about it, but then aint that the case with all human endeavours?
3. Of course the EU welcomed the former eastern block countries into its fold, they were way behind in development thanks to the Soviet Union - I think history will suggest that they have done rather better under the EU - funny that having got free of the Soviet Union they were so keen to join seeing as you think its so similar!!
4. The government did nothing??? Not strictly true or why is the deal for supporting the steel industry now potentially threatened by Brexit? The Tories were ****ting themselves over the impact of losing the industry and there as the article says exceptions for certain categories, which is why the government had put a deal together - in any case funny how germany, France and other countries manage to do things which time and time again our government says cannot be done because of EU rules - maybe its a convenient scapegoat??
5. How is Cameron my idiot? As I said before I don't support the guy and history will show that he made a massive error of judgement. Not sure Farage did anything, Cameron didn't need to call a referendum, but the smug so and so thought he would win. All Farage has done is tell a pack of lies and persuaded some dumb ass people (which clearly includes you) to vote for Brexit, other clearly had reasons other than the codswallop farage was spewing. But if your proud to be associted with the guy thats entirely up to you.
6. I was merely replying to you telling me to get off this Forum - as for hissy fits, where? I am literally pissing myself laughing at how you and your very tenuous grip on the facts dumber and dumber springs to mind!

[ramAnag]

Tricky, you're an intelligent contributor on occasions but, you've got one quote from Gorbachev that you rely on all the time and to accuse Swale of 'arrogance' only to then tell him to 'leave' because he doesn't agree with you and the 37% - not, and nothing like, half the country, - is pure bollux don't you think?
I happen to be in Germany at the moment. I've apologised three times today for the perceived attitude of my countrymen, something that I'm actually embarrassed by, but guess what...the Germans are still being pleasant and 'cool' about it all and still carry a stereotype about the English being regarded as 'polite and tolerant', if a little mad where Brexit is concerned. 'We shall see what happens' seems as far as they go. Imagine they've never met the likes of 'non electable Nigel' or they'd begin to think differently...as for us non-Brexiteers being repeatedly told to leave...if that's actually what you think we really do have a problem and perhaps you'd do well to remember that, even with the 'protest vote' factor, 37% is still a minority.