OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

I'm sure there are folk in London who live and breathe for getting their crayons out and doing a placard. Yet don't know how to wire a plug, or change TV channels without a remote, or do up a tie properly. The illegals don't bother me, I understand their need, but career protestors just make me want to barf. I wonder if anti-protestor sentiment is xenophobia?

[ramAnag]

'Human rights my arse!' Thanks Jim.
Take your point though.

[roger_ramjet]

Its actually diadilotephobia, Andy

Maybe the first time that word has appeared on this site

[Andy_Faber]

That's being anti reasoned argument, I think the contributors here have avoided that for the most part. I meant more 'anti folk with an afternoon off work dusting off an old for sale board (their mews house, £585,000) out of their shed, scrawling some clever words on it and chanting whatever Billy Bragg tells them to'. Billy Bragg wasn't there yesterday by the way, but I only saw one of the two protests so you never know. Not being bitter about this, honest.

[roger_ramjet]

Not sure about anti reasoned argument Andy - diadilotes - from Greek, meaning demonstrator, protester

Phobia = self evident

Thus diadilotephobia - fear / dread of demonstrators

[Andy_Faber]

I bow to your greater knowledge (or dedication to research), I'm not fearful of them though, they just piss me off, especially when it would appear (viz yesterday) that many were protesting 'in shifts' with their down time being in Starbucks drinking skinny lattays

[roger_ramjet]

especially when it would appear (viz yesterday) that many were protesting 'in shifts' with their down time being in Starbucks drinking skinny lattays

They appeared in Viz yesterday? I guess in the "modern Parents" strip or "Milly Tant"

[southernram22]

what makes me sad swale ramanag being in or out wont stop the unprecedented fall in to greed and cronyism that has been escalating in recent decades . sir phillip green a crook and he knows it. now mr cameron has listed his cronies for honours and they cannot be blocked its no wonder the normal people of this country dismay at politicians . in this statement you make see insight into many millions of views that europe was just a way of showing the elite that we do see beyond the facade put up. corrupt and criminal laws made by the elite and not bringing about change has made the masses say up yours mr cameron you see what a telling picture of britain this paints. then you see the gravy train brussels is on and you realise why people said no more. for many parts of the population the eu was generous helpful a way of financing various projects. for the more modest humble people who voted to leave it was just seen as a way for the rich to become richer .lady wheatcroft a financial journalist who is so far adrift of reality its embarrasing. there thats my say . mr camerons wifes hairdresser really is that what the honours list means paying debts to a few elite. let the football begin

[ramAnag]

Blimey southern, you sound like you've become a revolutionary overnight! Agree 100% with everything you've said about 'cronyism' and I think both Green and Cameron, who just appears to be putting two fingers up to all of us like the spoilt little ex-Etonian he is, are both a total disgrace. Don't know anything about Lady Wheatcroft tbh but what I find sad is that people blame the EU for corruption and riding the gravy train, which I accept is true in part, but seem reluctant to accept that we are already at least as bad in this country. How is quitting the EU going to help when we already have the home grown examples of corruption you mention? Anyway, mind how you go tonight, take it easy on the 'tipple'...at this rate you'll be Che Southern tomorrow. I'll go and Google this Wheatcroft woman...and no Roger...that's not a euphemism.

[mistaram]

ramAnag. Baroness Wheatcroft is aTory peer sitting in the house of Lords She is a former editor of the The Wall Street Journal and The Times At the moment she is doing her best to delay article 50 from being signed by using delaying tactics in the Lords She says if thy can delay long enough there may be another referendum Charming women deserves her gong 😃😃

[southernram22]

i agree ramanag we should sort out ourselves but as you say most other countrys are just as bad it reminds me of live aid and where
most of the moneies ended up greed is a very dangerous thing . and if they took lester piggots knighthood away so phillip greens should follow as he does not even live here monaco i believe. tbh i think its worse doing it to our own directly . prime ministers first mistake she has not as yet spoken out against the honors list.

[swaledale]

what makes me sad swale ramanag being in or out wont stop the unprecedented fall in to greed and cronyism that has been escalating in recent decades . sir phillip green a crook and he knows it. now mr cameron has listed his cronies for honours and they cannot be blocked its no wonder the normal people of this country dismay at politicians . in this statement you make see insight into many millions of views that europe was just a way of showing the elite that we do see beyond the facade put up. corrupt and criminal laws made by the elite and not bringing about change has made the masses say up yours mr cameron you see what a telling picture of britain this paints. then you see the gravy train brussels is on and you realise why people said no more. for many parts of the population the eu was generous helpful a way of financing various projects. for the more modest humble people who voted to leave it was just seen as a way for the rich to become richer .lady wheatcroft a financial journalist who is so far adrift of reality its embarrasing. there thats my say . mr camerons wifes hairdresser really is that what the honours list means paying debts to a few elite. let the football begin

I agree with most of what you have posted! I think a lot of the leave vote was by people who were sick of being ignored and shat on, the unfortunate thing is that their vote wont change their circumstances and may even be detrimental to them.

There is no doubt that for all the widely lauded words (repeated by May in her first speech) about governing for those who dont have power and just want an opportunity for a decent standard of living I fear that those who wield the power and influence , call them corporate elites, the establishment whatever will be the winners and the words like so many others will be just that.

Now if we were France or elsewhere, then I would anticipate riots if people dont see any change for the better, but the Uk does not really do that sort of mass protest.

Ironically Corbyn actually speaks a fair bit of truth, but does not seem capable of articulating that in a way that galvanises people.

[southernram22]

well said swale . yes politics in this country must chang

[swaledale]

Andy, all people have to do is look at the bigger picture.
The Superstate- it has and is still the plan. Some people may not have a problem with it, but I do. Don't give me all this *******s that it won't get voted in. You only have to open your eyes and ears. They talk about it all the time.
Europe is to be dismantled.
Quotes from Junker or any of the others. They talk about all the points openly.

That means-
1. One currency
2. One law court
3. One army
3.one government
4. one set of policies.

Not my words, THEIRS!!

There was scoffing of the Koudenhove Kalergi plan as a conspiracy. Really?
The EU has a prize in its name, for the most influential person to push its ideals. (Merkel) is a former winner.
Read it and form your own conclusions.
All this has been going on, slowly and surely for over 50 years. Do your own research.
We may never get to end game in my life time, but we;re getting there.
So yes, as a silent majority. Lots of folks have looked at how quickly their area or country has changed and said, enough!!
Slate that all you like, but that is the crux of it.

Swale and Anag, come up with lies/lies/lies. Would never dispute that fact, but you guys never mention the remain lies and lets be honest here. The whoppers told were incredible.
Many of the so called experts quoted have since been found out.
The IMF needs disbanding after its recent outbursts. Everyone knows it is EU influenced.
From the doom prophecies of not joining the Euro/ to the economy implosion the day we leave.

As for sturgeon, well she has never changed her stance. I wouldn't want the UK held to ransom to pacify 5 million Jocks.
Fact is, her leave campaign is really thin anyway and recent polls in jock land suggest she is greatly misjudging the situation.
But EU or not, the SNP are never going to let this go.
If they really want it, just GO.

I do despair when you get all excited over conspiracy theories - yes there are politicians and other powerful figures within the Eu who favour closer integration, yes the \euro became apolitical rather than an economic project and yes there is a lack of border controls within the EU (which are being rexamined in the light of recent events), but the Uk had remained in the EU and not participated in those, so your conjecture that at some stage in the future, the Uk would accept all these and become part of the european superstate its possible, but no Uk government has ever seemed likely to go down that road and whilst in the Eu we had a unique veto.

Yes we have cast doubt on the remain campaign's liberal interpretation of the facts and almost panic stricken doom mongering - as for institutions like the IMF, well economic forecasts are just that and need to be taken with some cynicism, though of course it may well take a decade or so to truly establish whether leaving the EU was good or bad for the country.

37% of the population is not the silent majority is it? And as I pointed out, people in ares which have had no mass immigration were stating that as the reason they voted leave, so clearly they werent talking from personal experience.

As the research indicated, there was a strong correlation between those who harked backed to the "good old days" who were in favour of the death penalty and socially conservative and those who voted leave, irrespective of social class or wealth.

If there was one thing that is true, its that the world changes and leaving the Eu is not going to stop that, so a hell of a lot of people who voted for Brexit are going to be very disappointed when things dont change they way they expect.

If in the next decade, inward investment reduces and firms relocate to the EU, taking those jobs with them, then people at the sharp end are going to be worse off, many of them will have voted for Brexit when maybe they should have voted for government with socially cohesive policies?

[swaledale]

well said swale . yes politics in this country must chang

But people seem to like either smooth talking sharp suited PR as in Cameron or those apparent rebels like Trump and Farage who pretend they understand the "ordinary folk" but in reality just feed their fears to further their own agendas.