OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[roger_ramjet]

I should have thought you would be happy with the current mess up in negotiating Brexit rA as surely it increases the chances of the government quitting on the idea altogether ?

[ramAnag]

I should have thought you would be happy with the current mess up in negotiating Brexit rA as surely it increases the chances of the government quitting on the idea altogether ?

Happy about the fact it may not happen...fed up of all the wasted time and the fake outrage it may result in.

Thanks MA...I’ll give it a look.

[Andy_Faber]

Depressing doesn’t begin to cover it Andy. Contrary to what some believe I am not a massive ‘lefty’ or rampant Europhile but enough is enough. If we still can’t recognise that this monumental ‘decision’ was made on the basis of virtually no evidence of what the consequences might be and that we are now in serious danger of shooting ourselves in the foot - and both kneecaps aswell - then there really is no hope.
To return to old ground...the Referendum wasn’t ever binding, it doesn’t reflect the ‘will of the people’ and the ‘people’ reached their conclusion with little, if any, knowledge of what the outcomes might be.
Yes we need to look very seriously at what caused the backlash against the EU but it’s surely time to call a halt to this act of political self harm.

MA...at a time when we might need to cash in on our assets...I have a collection of about 200+ vinyl albums from around the mid to late sixties to the dawn of the CD (heresy I know but space became an issue). They’re all in decent to excellent condition...any, obviously, very loose estimate of their financial (as opposed to emotional) worth?

Send me a list RA but the answer is probably not much. If you have a copy of Kossoff Kirke Tetsu And Rabbit or Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here in quad then we might be talking, but otherwise its usually pin money only.

Edit: says the bloke who, back in the 90s 'ran' a business selling off a massive catalogue of Atlantic/Warners albums and singles ammassed over 30 years by a distant relative in Canada, and on one occasion consigned a wad of said albums to landfill, including a wierd record called 'Y Kant Tori Rite'. A year or so later I discovered a) it was the extremely rare first record by then mega-famous Tori Amos, and b) my discovery was because a dealer I worked with sold a copy for £2000. And his was a used copy, mine was new. So clueless maybe the government should draft me into the Brexit team...

[MadAmster]

Do you still have any of the singles Andy? They may be of interest to me.

This buying and selling of vinyl, just like the art world, is a question of knowing your onions, being able to spot counterfeits and buying what you genuinely want and/or need.

Three cases in point.

Timi Yuro - It'll never be over for me. The original single is expensive. A copy was auctioned 2 months ago for £900. I don't have the wherewithall to shell out that amount. Last year I found out that the LP came out 6 months before the 45. The LP is the original. Paid €20 for the LP.

Jackie Wilson - Because of you. Less expensive than the Timi but still goes for between 150 and 200. The LP is the original. Bought a copy of the LP 2 months ago for £20.

Voices of East Harlem - Cashing In. Was always a 40 quid record. Started going crazy about 8 months ago and is up around 180 now. You guessed it. The LP is the original. Copy on it's way to me from the States. Cost $9.99

I can now legitimately play them out without paying ridiculous amounts for them.

Sometimes you can get lucky. A friend of mine over here was browsing a flea market stall. Found 2 great and rare singles. Vicki Labat - Got to keep hanging on (Shagg label) and Sam Dees - Lonely for you Baby (SSS International). The Labat fetches 2 grand, the Dees goes for 850. He paid €1 each. I have yet to be quite so lucky.

[swaledale]

Its been bloody obvious that nobody on the Brexit side had a clue since well before the referendum! Just a pity that those on the remain campaign were equally limp wristed, complacent and clueless.

[Andy_Faber]

Its been bloody obvious that nobody on the Brexit side had a clue since well before the referendum! Just a pity that those on the remain campaign were equally limp wristed, complacent and clueless.

Correct, the problem IMO was that both sides were led by people who reverted to type and believed lying and spreading fear would do the trick. When all said and done though someone should have just slapped Cameron down when he suggested the idea.

[MadAmster]

Correct, the problem IMO was that both sides were led by people who reverted to type and believed lying and spreading fear would do the trick. When all said and done though someone should have just slapped Cameron down when he suggested the idea.

IMO, both sides of the argument, with the exception of UKIP and a handful of MPs of various persuasions, were convinced that an OUT vote was never going to happen....... Cameron resigned for one reason and one reason only..... he had got it utterly wrong in his mind. If I had had a vote I would have voted out because I don't believe in a US of E. It is something the powers that be have denied as being the end game ever since the 1st day of the Common Market way back when. It IS and always has been the end game. They have also contuniuously denied that there will be an EU Army. That too is now a reality. I actually thought we already had one called NATO.

[ramAnag]

IMO, both sides of the argument, with the exception of UKIP and a handful of MPs of various persuasions, were convinced that an OUT vote was never going to happen....... Cameron resigned for one reason and one reason only..... he had got it utterly wrong in his mind. If I had had a vote I would have voted out because I don't believe in a US of E. It is something the powers that be have denied as being the end game ever since the 1st day of the Common Market way back when. It IS and always has been the end game. They have also contuniuously denied that there will be an EU Army. That too is now a reality. I actually thought we already had one called NATO.

I’m astonished that such a reasonable, positive and intelligent contributor as yourself would have voted ‘out’ MA but I accept fully that you are entitled to your opinion.
Imo, Cameron resigned because, by losing the vote, he not only got it hopelessly wrong but had completely ‘lost’ his Party and unfortunately far too much of the rationale behind the Referendum was always about the future of the Tory Party.
Like you I’m not in favour of a US of E but I really don’t see it like that. Yes, I’ll agree that there is too much bureaucracy and insufficient democracy - although look where the latter has got us recently - but, again imo, the EU has done much more good than harm and I genuinely don’t see it as a threat to our national identity.
Personally I value the concept of being European just as much as I value being English and post Referendum whenever I am in Europe - mainly Spain and Germany these days - I just feel slightly embarrassed by the whole ‘have our cake and eat it’ Brexit mentality,

[Andy_Faber]

I’m astonished that such a reasonable, positive and intelligent contributor as yourself would have voted ‘out’ MA but I accept fully that you are entitled to your opinion.
Imo, Cameron resigned because, by losing the vote, he not only got it hopelessly wrong but had completely ‘lost’ his Party and unfortunately far too much of the rationale behind the Referendum was always about the future of the Tory Party.
Like you I’m not in favour of a US of E but I really don’t see it like that. Yes, I’ll agree that there is too much bureaucracy and insufficient democracy - although look where the latter has got us recently - but, again imo, the EU has done much more good than harm and I genuinely don’t see it as a threat to our national identity.
Personally I value the concept of being European just as much as I value being English and post Referendum whenever I am in Europe - mainly Spain and Germany these days - I just feel slightly embarrassed by the whole ‘have our cake and eat it’ Brexit mentality,

I very nearly voted out and am a massive eurosceptic, NOT of Europe or Europeans as individuals but of EU, I continue to try to understand the reasoned motivations of all that led them to vote how they did including the new views of RA and of course your own, not sure being ‘astonished’ is how I would treat any reasoned opinion......

[ramAnag]

I very nearly voted out and am a massive eurosceptic, NOT of Europe or Europeans as individuals but of EU, I continue to try to understand the reasoned motivations of all that led them to vote how they did including the new views of RA and of course your own, not sure being ‘astonished’ is how I would treat any reasoned opinion......

‘New views of RA’?
I’m always ‘astonished’ when reasonable people vote for the unreasonable or, in this case, self harm, Andy.
‘Very nearly voted out’...isn’t that just another way of saying you actually voted ‘Remain’?
The fact that you are now part of a tiny minority who voted ‘Remain’ but now see something positive in Brexit is just another source of puzzlement, but like MA you are too perceptive to be ignored.
Unlike many - not all - Brexiteers, I don’t for one moment think that the likes of you or MA hold views based on bigotry, ignorance and frustration but I am genuinely surprised when decent and thoughtful folk vote for something which, imo, is so transparently damaging, harmful and divisive.

[roger_ramjet]

"The fact that you are now part of a tiny minority who voted ‘Remain’ but now see something positive in Brexit is just another source of puzzlement, but like MA you are too perceptive to be ignored."

Cant be that much of a minority as there is another one here (although according to BaaLocks I probably am bigoted and ignorant!!)

[MadAmster]

‘New views of RA’?
I’m always ‘astonished’ when reasonable people vote for the unreasonable or, in this case, self harm, Andy.
‘Very nearly voted out’...isn’t that just another way of saying you actually voted ‘Remain’?
The fact that you are now part of a tiny minority who voted ‘Remain’ but now see something positive in Brexit is just another source of puzzlement, but like MA you are too perceptive to be ignored.
Unlike many - not all - Brexiteers, I don’t for one moment think that the likes of you or MA hold views based on bigotry, ignorance and frustration but I am genuinely surprised when decent and thoughtful folk vote for something which, imo, is so transparently damaging, harmful and divisive.

Compliment much appreciated RA. The whole idea of the US of E is just wrong. They denied from the 60s onwards that a US of E and Euro Army were not the plan. We now know different. The Euro. Not the success it was intended to be because almost half of the countries originally in the Eurozone lied about the state of their economy in order to join. A single tax regime across the EU? Not yet publicly spoken about but the planes are there. The Southern Europeans and the former Eastern bloc countries won't want that as their requirements from life and their government's interference/assistance therein are totally different to yours and mine. I don't want, and never have wanted, a US of E. Hence my no vote in the 70s referendum and I would have voted out this time had I had a vote. As it is, I will, early next year, be looking to start up a new movement in the Netherlands based on doing whatever it takes to stop the EU juggernaut in its tracks and return decision making to a more local level. The current rush towards BIG government (or NWO as the conspiracy theorists would have it) is dangerous to our future liberties and freedoms. EU army well on the way, and now Martin Schulz is calling for a "United States of Europe" by 2025.
As with the list of 10 I posted on another thread on here, I remember when these were "conspiracy theories"..... now fact.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry ramanag got my ma and my ta mixed up

[ramAnag]

Sorry ramanag got my ma and my ta mixed up

Not to mention your RA!

Rog, I don’t believe you’re either ‘ignorant or bigoted’ but the fact that you and Andy may have had partial and cautious rethinks doesn’t, imo, actually reflect the mood of the country.
Little doubt now that, again imo, if the facts and likely outcomes were put before the ‘people’...rather than the pack of lies and half truths we were actually offered eighteen months ago...that the outcome would be different.

[Andy_Faber]

Not to mention your RA!

Rog, I don’t believe you’re either ‘ignorant or bigoted’ but the fact that you and Andy may have had partial and cautious rethinks doesn’t, imo, actually reflect the mood of the country.
Little doubt now that, again imo, if the facts and likely outcomes were put before the ‘people’...rather than the pack of lies and half truths we were actually offered eighteen months ago...that the outcome would be different.

Banana fingers and forgotten reading glasses. You should hear me playing Stravinsky’s third off sheet music down here on the st Pancras piano.