OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Not to mention your RA!

Rog, I don’t believe you’re either ‘ignorant or bigoted’ but the fact that you and Andy may have had partial and cautious rethinks doesn’t, imo, actually reflect the mood of the country.
Little doubt now that, again imo, if the facts and likely outcomes were put before the ‘people’...rather than the pack of lies and half truths we were actually offered eighteen months ago...that the outcome would be different.

Banana fingers and forgotten reading glasses. You should hear me playing Stravinsky’s third off sheet music down here on the st Pancras piano.

[Andy_Faber]

Not to mention your RA!

Rog, I don’t believe you’re either ‘ignorant or bigoted’ but the fact that you and Andy may have had partial and cautious rethinks doesn’t, imo, actually reflect the mood of the country.
Little doubt now that, again imo, if the facts and likely outcomes were put before the ‘people’...rather than the pack of lies and half truths we were actually offered eighteen months ago...that the outcome would be different.

But he mood of the country is as I mentioned earlier and as reported in the most recent poll, within a margin of error the same as 23/6/16.

The whole aspect of a referendum influenced by the effectiveness of opposing sides is a fail to me, it should have been based on information provided of independently determined outcomes, and the vote should have been based on a range of satisfactions not a yes no.

I still think a significant number of leave voters did so by voting on a different question to that posed (and think even more would do so if asked again). Before I get swaled that is an observation not an opinion

[ramAnag]

But he mood of the country is as I mentioned earlier and as reported in the most recent poll, within a margin of error the same as 23/6/16.

The whole aspect of a referendum influenced by the effectiveness of opposing sides is a fail to me, it should have been based on information provided of independently determined outcomes, and the vote should have been based on a range of satisfactions not a yes no.

I still think a significant number of leave voters did so by voting on a different question to that posed (and think even more would do so if asked again). Before I get swaled that is an observation not an opinion

At last we are in agreement.
My whole point since way before 23/6/16 has always been that the electorate, including myself, are simply not capable of making this ‘decision’. It’s all relative and while I believe I understand and have given the matter more thought than many, I do not believe I have a complete understanding. If I feel like that with regard to my own opinion - and yours, Roger’s and Swale’s etc for that matter - what was the point?
It all became a matter of political convenience. Not only were the electorate not capable of judging the facts...they were never even presented with the facts. Frankly if we settled everything by resorting to simple referendum there would almost certainly be a death penalty, no traffic wardens or speed limit and no VAT or Income Tax...so why accept a referendum on this particularly complex issue?
It’s all become an absolute nonsense so...let’s call the whole thing off...please, before it is too late.

And another thing...I caught a bit of Question Time last night and saw the arch Brexiteer Bernard Jenkin spouting his usual nonsense.
If I remember correctly, the same Mr. Jenkin was the worst offender in the MP’s expenses scandal of a few years ago. Claimed something like £36k more than he was entitled to I believe. If anyone in any other walk of life had done that I would imagine they’d have, quite rightly, lost their job...what makes MP’s any different?

[roger_ramjet]

So the white smoke is rising, Terry May has got a Black Friday discount down to 35-39 billion on deferred terms! I don't suppose for one minute it is a "final form agreement" but it is enough of one to start moving on towards "what we get" rather than "what we give". Now if only the insoluble Ireland aspects can be resolved things "May" be on track for March 2019.

Flags at half mast in Chateaux Ramanag and Swaledale?

[ramAnag]

So the white smoke is rising, Terry May has got a Black Friday discount down to 35-39 billion on deferred terms! I don't suppose for one minute it is a "final form agreement" but it is enough of one to start moving on towards "what we get" rather than "what we give". Now if only the insoluble Ireland aspects can be resolved things "May" be on track for March 2019.

Flags at half mast in Chateaux Ramanag and Swaledale?

Possibly her ‘finest hour’ Rog...but the previous one was winning the race to be PM and then look what happened.
It’s pissed Farage off which can only ever be a good thing and JC sounds a tad bitter too.
Long way to go...bit like our promotion campaign.
Obviously I’d prefer a good deal but I still wish we didn’t need one at all.

[roger_ramjet]

I have never thought Corbyn to be anything other than bitter, but I guess that comes with being an extremist at either end of the spectrum. Farage because the Brexit is too soft in his view, Corbyn because, well, he's just Corbyn.

Still you were right about one thing: sterling has fallen as a result of the announcement - but supposedly only because of profit taking against the rises in the last couple of days (I got this off Wikipedia by the way)

[Andy_Faber]

At last we are in agreement.
My whole point since way before 23/6/16 has always been that the electorate, including myself, are simply not capable of making this ‘decision’. It’s all relative and while I believe I understand and have given the matter more thought than many, I do not believe I have a complete understanding. If I feel like that with regard to my own opinion - and yours, Roger’s and Swale’s etc for that matter - what was the point?

I think we agreed on that aspect a thousand posts ago.

[Andy_Faber]

Do you still have any of the singles Andy? They may be of interest to me.

This buying and selling of vinyl, just like the art world, is a question of knowing your onions, being able to spot counterfeits and buying what you genuinely want and/or need.

Three cases in point.

Timi Yuro - It'll never be over for me. The original single is expensive. A copy was auctioned 2 months ago for £900. I don't have the wherewithall to shell out that amount. Last year I found out that the LP came out 6 months before the 45. The LP is the original. Paid €20 for the LP.

Jackie Wilson - Because of you. Less expensive than the Timi but still goes for between 150 and 200. The LP is the original. Bought a copy of the LP 2 months ago for £20.

Voices of East Harlem - Cashing In. Was always a 40 quid record. Started going crazy about 8 months ago and is up around 180 now. You guessed it. The LP is the original. Copy on it's way to me from the States. Cost $9.99

I can now legitimately play them out without paying ridiculous amounts for them.

Sometimes you can get lucky. A friend of mine over here was browsing a flea market stall. Found 2 great and rare singles. Vicki Labat - Got to keep hanging on (Shagg label) and Sam Dees - Lonely for you Baby (SSS International). The Labat fetches 2 grand, the Dees goes for 850. He paid €1 each. I have yet to be quite so lucky.

Only one that you would be interested in, and its going nowhere - Archie Bell And the Drells 'The Tighten Up' AT2478P stamped 'Promo Only (etc) and single-sided, unplayed and still sealed in its red and black dust cover, and its the only record in my collection that is not in it to be played, I'm not a collector. I dealt with the rest as part of the business and appeared to make a lot of fellahs very happy, the highest price I recall was over £100 for a promo of Aretha's Do Right Woman with Aretha herself given songwriting credits. All the stuff I kept was albums, and most of that Rock, sorry. But keep the faith.

[Ram59]

The referendum wasn't a question of remain or leave though. In reality it was a question of leave or immerse ourselves deeper and deeper into what will become the U S of E. The power of veto will be withdrawn, the eu army formed, we'll pay even more, etc, etc. I think that this is obvious to every man and his dog.

In years to come we will say thank god we didn't sign up to that, much like the question of joining the euro. Btw, can you find anyone now, who claims to have backed joining the euro?

Tony Benn was against joining the Common Market because he feared where it would take us and he was ridiculed, he was also right.

[MadAmster]

Only one that you would be interested in, and its going nowhere - Archie Bell And the Drells 'The Tighten Up' AT2478P stamped 'Promo Only (etc) and single-sided, unplayed and still sealed in its red and black dust cover, and its the only record in my collection that is not in it to be played, I'm not a collector. I dealt with the rest as part of the business and appeared to make a lot of fellahs very happy, the highest price I recall was over £100 for a promo of Aretha's Do Right Woman with Aretha herself given songwriting credits. All the stuff I kept was albums, and most of that Rock, sorry. But keep the faith.

With a lot of stuff, I could give you a figure within 10% of what it might fetch. I have to admit that this one has me extremely intrigued as I have never seen, nor even heard of, a single sided promo of this track. An online check also shows no info on this promo on Discogs and they have a pretty comprehensive list of every issue of most records. EG Edwin Starr had 4 releases of Agent Double O Soul on Ric Tic plus the Promo. The first was titled Agent O O Soul but every DJ was calling it O O rather than Double O as in the lyrics. They brought it out with black writing on a red label and black on yellow and red on yellow. The promo was balck on white. I am still trying to get the O O version. All of that info can be found on Discogs. They do not, however, have any info on your single sided promo. This calls for investigation.

[ramAnag]

The referendum wasn't a question of remain or leave though. In reality it was a question of leave or immerse ourselves deeper and deeper into what will become the U S of E. The power of veto will be withdrawn, the eu army formed, we'll pay even more, etc, etc. I think that this is obvious to every man and his dog.

In years to come we will say thank god we didn't sign up to that, much like the question of joining the euro. Btw, can you find anyone now, who claims to have backed joining the euro?

Tony Benn was against joining the Common Market because he feared where it would take us and he was ridiculed, he was also right.

‘The referendum wasn’t a question of remain or leave though’. Really?
Unfortunately that’s precisely what it was.
The fact that you have thought a little more deeply about the issues than a simple ‘remain’ or ‘leave’ doesn’t alter what the referendum ultimately became and I still feel all too many made an altogether more simplistic decision based on nothing other than uninformed fear, prejudice and resentment.

[Andy_Faber]

‘The referendum wasn’t a question of remain or leave though’. Really?
Unfortunately that’s precisely what it was.
The fact that you have thought a little more deeply about the issues than a simple ‘remain’ or ‘leave’ doesn’t alter what the referendum ultimately became and I still feel all too many made an altogether more simplistic decision based on nothing other than uninformed fear, prejudice and resentment.

On a sort of related subject, and a genuine non-loaded question RA: You've been an advocate of increased funding for public services, what's your view on the current revelations regarding University principles' pay/reward? I'll offer a view uncoloured by student debt etc because both my children went the advanced apprenticeship route (and thank God they did) - my view is such pay rates are obscene.

[roger_ramjet]

Heres a coloured view - I agree obscene.

[swaledale]

So the white smoke is rising, Terry May has got a Black Friday discount down to 35-39 billion on deferred terms! I don't suppose for one minute it is a "final form agreement" but it is enough of one to start moving on towards "what we get" rather than "what we give". Now if only the insoluble Ireland aspects can be resolved things "May" be on track for March 2019.

Flags at half mast in Chateaux Ramanag and Swaledale?

On the contrary, we are heading (no matter how big the smokescreen for the hard Brexiteers) to just the sort of "soft" Brexit that I predicted over a year ago - the language is obscure and indeed deliberately so, but words like "parallel regulatory regime" effectively mean we will operate in a parallel and amazingly similar regulatory regime to the EU which realistically was always going to be the case and isn't too much of a problem for the EU because the Uk were always a reluctant Eu member - incidentally contrary to what has been posted on here, If we had remained in the EU, our Veto could not have been removed, and we would not have had to join the Euro, schengen or a so called EU army etc etc.

What people don't understand is that the myriad of regulations covering everything from financial services, chemicals, nuclear material, standards for goods, environmental protection etc. will have to be the same for us to continue to trade with the EU, financial services make up a large % of our GDP, supply chains for our industry is EU, most of our trade is with the EU, there is no market that will replace that at the very least not in the next two decades, so we will have to run a parallel course.

Naturally it will seem as we have "taken back control" in reality that will not be the case but dont tell those who voted leave!

[ramAnag]

On a sort of related subject, and a genuine non-loaded question RA: You've been an advocate of increased funding for public services, what's your view on the current revelations regarding University principles' pay/reward? I'll offer a view uncoloured by student debt etc because both my children went the advanced apprenticeship route (and thank God they did) - my view is such pay rates are obscene.

I do indeed support increased funding for public services because, imo, decent public services are the ‘rock’ upon which any remotely compassionate society is built.
I know you, Roger and others will immediately go into ‘and who do you think pays for them’ mode and I understand that. Yes, of course we need the wealth providers, but we need the carers, educators, health providers, refuse collectors, first responders, law enforcers etc just as much, however I totally agree with your sentiment about University Principles just as I do about others at the top of their little ‘empires’ and as I do about the outrageous sums paid to professional sportsmen etc.

P.S. I also agree with Swale’s take on Brexit in the post above and seeing as Roger is agreeing with you too we may have that rare situation where all four of us appear to be in something approaching agreement.