OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

I think Boris is doing a grand job!

Aye lost his majority, proven liar, acted unlawfully, lost every vote in parliament, hasn't a ****ing clue what he is doing and now defending claims he helped someone he shagged and agreed £126,000 to her company. Mm just the kind of leader this country can be proud of!

Come the lection IF the people vote for a party led by Johnson then they will have proved themselves to be utterly stupid and have no reason to complain about politicians ever again!

[swaledale]

I think Boris is doing a grand job!

Aye lost his majority, proven liar, acted unlawfully, lost every vote in parliament, hasn't a ****ing clue what he is doing and now defending claims he helped someone he shagged and agreed £126,000 to her company. Mm just the kind of leader this country can be proud of!

Come the election IF the people vote for a party led by Johnson then they will have proved themselves to be utterly stupid and have no reason to complain about politicians ever again!

[Manofpride]

Aye lost his majority, proven liar, acted unlawfully, lost every vote in parliament, hasn't a ****ing clue what he is doing and now defending claims he helped someone he shagged and agreed £126,000 to her company. Mm just the kind of leader this country can be proud of!

Come the election IF the people vote for a party led by Johnson then they will have proved themselves to be utterly stupid and have no reason to complain about politicians ever again!

They all lie Swale and everyone on the remain side will try everything in bringing Boris down. The remain side know he can't be hoodwinked even with all the tripe being thrown at him.
Even the EU are now realising he means business and are now trying to get on board as they don't want to leave empty handed. Deal or no deal Boris is getting the job done, it's good to see someone who is trying his hardest to get what the people voted for!
Like I said I think he's doing a grand job! I know who I'd vote for!

[ramAnag]

C’mon MoP, Swale is 100% right on this one. You can’t really be proud of him, surely?

The biggest danger I see is that evident dissatisfaction with Johnson from the Tory heartland might translate into them voting for the equally disingenuous and loathsome Farage.

What a choice...pass me the slug killer.

[MadAmster]

I have to say it does appear that, IMO for the first time, the UK PM/Govt is actually getting their 'arris into gear and doing something to get a satisfactory deal rather than the any old deal May was happy to acceept.

I still find BoJo an objectionable character but it seems, on the outside anyway, that he has finally got the EU sweating.

[ramAnag]

I have to say it does appear that, IMO for the first time, the UK PM/Govt is actually getting their 'arris into gear and doing something to get a satisfactory deal rather than the any old deal May was happy to acceept.

I still find BoJo an objectionable character but it seems, on the outside anyway, that he has finally got the EU sweating.

Can’t help thinking that the only people suggesting there’ll be a ‘satisfactory deal’ are the lying political opportunists already spoken of above and some EU officials who have just had enough of three years of UK intransigence and deadlock, MA.

At the end of the day - or the ‘week of weeks’ - the only question that really matters is this...is Johnson’s ‘deal’ going to provide the population and economy of this country with something better than we currently have.

IMO that seems very unlikely and if it isn’t then the 37% were wrong...simple as that.
Hopefully things may have become a lot clearer by this time next week though personally I believe that about as much as I believe in the tooth fairy, Mason Bennett’s ability to hold his drink and the validity of today’s Queen’s Speech.

[Andy_Faber]

the only question that really matters is this...is Johnson’s ‘deal’ going to provide the population and economy of this country with something better than we currently have.

RA, that may be the only question that really matters to you, but its irrelevant or way down the pecking order to so so many people. Most people aren't actually bothered about anyone but themselves (and their immediate family) and the economic impact of Brexit is too complex to provide them with a clear answer. I've been through this in detail with more folk than I can count now, mainly family and friends but a few from my social media rabble (which include Spaniards and Brits in Spain, Irish (both sides, one of whom runs a business in Enniscorthy 70% dependant on the attendance of Brits), a Greek with a business in Edinburgh, blah blah. When they strip away the emotion of Brexit and look at their true business and personal drivers, they would all say 'other things matter more'. I WILL grant you that for some folk (WAAY less than the famous 37% but worthy of sympathy nonetheless) will be significantly impacted on a personal level by anything other than the status quo, but that happens in all periods of change. IMO there would be a bigger impact on individuals in UK if HS2 was cancelled, I may have said this before

What's then left to ask is 'what DOES Johnson's deal deliver to the disaffected'? and of course that IS a difficult one to answer. From my unscientific observations the two main issues continue to be immigration (but as most of the unwanted immigration is from non-EU countries) and the ability to vote out those abusing power (but 'good luck on that one' whoever/wherever is in power).

The end point of this, and again sorry if I've said this before, is that there was and is a massive unheard proportion of the population who were p***ed off with being ignored/condescended to by 'the man', decided the referendum was their last hope of being heard, and they are sticking to their guns.

As ever, this is my observation not in particular my opinion

[ramAnag]

RA, that may be the only question that really matters to you, but its irrelevant or way down the pecking order to so so many people. Most people aren't actually bothered about anyone but themselves (and their immediate family) and the economic impact of Brexit is too complex to provide them with a clear answer. I've been through this in detail with more folk than I can count now, mainly family and friends but a few from my social media rabble (which include Spaniards and Brits in Spain, Irish (both sides, one of whom runs a business in Enniscorthy 70% dependant on the attendance of Brits), a Greek with a business in Edinburgh, blah blah. When they strip away the emotion of Brexit and look at their true business and personal drivers, they would all say 'other things matter more'. I WILL grant you that for some folk (WAAY less than the famous 37% but worthy of sympathy nonetheless) will be significantly impacted on a personal level by anything other than the status quo, but that happens in all periods of change. IMO there would be a bigger impact on individuals in UK if HS2 was cancelled, I may have said this before

What's then left to ask is 'what DOES Johnson's deal deliver to the disaffected'? and of course that IS a difficult one to answer. From my unscientific observations the two main issues continue to be immigration (but as most of the unwanted immigration is from non-EU countries) and the ability to vote out those abusing power (but 'good luck on that one' whoever/wherever is in power).

The end point of this, and again sorry if I've said this before, is that there was and is a massive unheard proportion of the population who were p***ed off with being ignored/condescended to by 'the man', decided the referendum was their last hope of being heard, and they are sticking to their guns.

As ever, this is my observation not in particular my opinion

Oddly, Andy, it isn’t the only question that matters to me...but it surely is the ultimate question as far as the majority are concerned.

Never mind May’s deal, ‘no deal’ or the latest Johnson-Cummings-Rees Mogg ‘do or die’ deal...the question has to be...will we - the people and economy of the UK - be better served by the latest ‘deal’, whatever it may be, than we have been as members of the EU?

People may have certain understandable misgivings about aspects of the EU but, at its most basic and perhaps selfish level, the ultimate and simple question remains, imo, will we be replacing our benefits as members of the EU with something better...and if so...how?

[mistaram]

I think Boris is doing a grand job!

Would you like to tell us what he is actually doing Because he's sucked up everything he's tried to do so far

[Andy_Faber]

Oddly, Andy, it isn’t the only question that matters to me...but it surely is the ultimate question as far as the majority are concerned.

Never mind May’s deal, ‘no deal’ or the latest Johnson-Cummings-Rees Mogg ‘do or die’ deal...the question has to be...will we - the people and economy of the UK - be better served by the latest ‘deal’, whatever it may be, than we have been as members of the EU?

People may have certain understandable misgivings about aspects of the EU but, at its most basic and perhaps selfish level, the ultimate and simple question remains, imo, will we be replacing our benefits as members of the EU with something better...and if so...how?

that's just a reworded response of your earlier post, so my response to your response would be the same. Note that you've used 'we' where my point is about 'I' (or a very limited version of 'we')

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think the point here is that, with few exceptions, not many people think "we" but rather think "I" in connection with Brexit. Those that have little or nothing now, will perhaps be no worse off following Brexit.

[Andy_Faber]

I think the point here is that, with few exceptions, not many people think "we" but rather think "I" in connection with Brexit. Those that have little or nothing now, will perhaps be no worse off following Brexit.

That's most of what I was trying to get at.

[Manofpride]

Would you like to tell us what he is actually doing Because he's sucked up everything he's tried to do so far

He's doing his best to give what the majority of people voted for, and that's leave!
He can see the minority who wanted to stay are trying everything in their power to scupper it. We all have opinions of whats going to happen but the fact is no one knows! Everyone in the UK should now get on board to make this break from the EU as smooth and quickly as possible then all work together to try and get this Country back on it's feet where it belongs. I'm still convinced that there are people out there who want this to fail just to say I told you so. Boris is having none of it and although the remainers are throwing all the **** they can gather to throw at him he still stands resilient. Boris is getting the job done, the remainers know it and that's why they hate him. Remainers all bullies IMO!

[ramAnag]

Sorry if I was ‘rewording’ or being repetitive, Andy. My use of the term ‘we’ referred to the the ‘national interest’ or, as I thought I’d initially made clear, the ‘population and economy’ of this country.

As for ‘Remainers all bullies’, MoP...I think that really is an offensive comment.
You and I for instance regularly see eye to eye where football is concerned but seldom, if ever, with regard to Brexit and yet I don’t think I have ever ridiculed you or been uncivil about your stance. I am most certainly a Remainer but I am no bully!
If you want examples of bullies look no further than than the behaviour of those Brexit supporters who terrorised individuals of foreign/immigrant appearance in the aftermath of the Referendum. Look at the behaviour of the likes of Johnson and Cummings towards members of the former’s own Party who disagree with him and consider which side of this ‘debate’ is threatening rioting in the street if they don’t get their way.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry if I was ‘rewording’ or being repetitive, Andy. My use of the term ‘we’ referred to the the ‘national interest’ or, as I thought I’d initially made clear, the ‘population and economy’ of this country.

Yes I know, you were clear both times - that's what I was disagreeing with. I reiterate, most folk aren't especially bothered about something as nebulous as 'the national interest', they are bothered about what goes on in their own very small orbit. The farmer on the Irish border who thinks he will be ruined by the current proposals is to be sympathised with, but he is no different to a friend of mine who's online business, run through ebay, is blighted by UK-based folk of eastern european origin who treat winning an auction bid as the point at which they REALLY start negotiating. She can't wait or afford for a whole cultural group to change their ways and in her words wants 'Brexit to clip their wings' (ie a vain I think, hope that such folk will feel unwelcome and leave). Now you can (as you usually do) say that the two examples are 'different' but in one way there's no argument - both are only thinking about themselves, neither want to be collateral damage to any decision made 'in the national interest'