OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

TTR and RA, your spat condenses the whole UK into a few dozen posts, find some common ground and work from there!

However, agreeing with Mista, NF seems to have got himself some very valuable and beyond-free publicity with his LBC gig, not sure that's fair.

An observation from my recent time in Spain, and its only a small demographic - contrary to the impression given by 'traditional' UK media, most expats I have come across are NF (although not BJ) fans and have abandoned BBC, ITV and Sky News in favour of LBC.

Tricky and I have about as much in common politically as we do in terms of football, Andy.
Suggesting we find some ‘common ground’ would be like asking me to find something in common with Farage...that’s never going to happen and, judging from his responses to anything I post, Tricky feels exactly the same way.

Quite how any ‘expat’ could ever logically support Farage totally escapes me. The ‘full English’, Daily Mail/Sun reading tourist brigade in Spain I might expect it of, but to be a Farage/Brexit supporting expat is beyond me.

[mistaram]

[QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39356691]You see, there you go again with the classic mistake
"My beloved Brexit party"

It is not my beloved party at all. It is a tool, for an end to a means.
I stopped voting like a colour wearing idiot years ago.
That's the problem in this country. Folks would vote for a chimpanzee in the right coloured rosette.
In the last 20 years I have for them all in one form or another.

But at the moment, I would never vote Liberal/Labour for their stance and attempts to undermine a referendum, they said/vowed/pledges to uphold.

It's about democracy and who is ever going to vote again, if they cannot trust their vote to be adhered to?

I want that vote carried out, then I want to see what the parties do regarding the internal politics of this country.
Then I'll decide who I vote for.
But you keep assuming what I'll do, I find it funn

Tricky having debated with you for the last six years there's no way you would ever vote Labour or Lib Dem nothing to do with the referendum That's about as daft as me saying I'm a Tory

[Trickytreesreds]

Wrong again Mr.
I started work at National Coal board in 1982. Who would you think first had my political attention culture wise?
I thought Ashdown was starting something good with the Liberals, but Clegg destroyed that trust.

I'm open to suggestions every time.
But Swinson, has been proved to be an opportunist, after slating the EU for years. Same with Corbyn, but Corbyn riles a lot more anger than just that.
I voted Green once, but Caroline Lucas has made sure that was a short look see.

Like I said, deliver that vote, then show me your domestic stance.
With a clear path, I'll vote without prejudice.

[mistaram]

Tricky I will take it you won't be voting because they are all opportunists I may be persuaded to vote when the two faced Sajid Javid tells me the results of the report of the economic impact to the economy that he has on his desk but I won't hold my breath Also the report the government have on Russian interference in the forth coming election .At least Trump does it the open by phoning into Farages radio phone in I pissed myself at Farage trying to act surprised

[MadAmster]

[QUOTE=mistaram;39356723]

You see, there you go again with the classic mistake
"My beloved Brexit party"

It is not my beloved party at all. It is a tool, for an end to a means.
I stopped voting like a colour wearing idiot years ago.
That's the problem in this country. Folks would vote for a chimpanzee in the right coloured rosette.
In the last 20 years I have for them all in one form or another.

But at the moment, I would never vote Liberal/Labour for their stance and attempts to undermine a referendum, they said/vowed/pledges to uphold.

It's about democracy and who is ever going to vote again, if they cannot trust their vote to be adhered to?

I want that vote carried out, then I want to see what the parties do regarding the internal politics of this country.
Then I'll decide who I vote for.
But you keep assuming what I'll do, I find it funn

Tricky having debated with you for the last six years there's no way you would ever vote Labour or Lib Dem nothing to do with the referendum That's about as daft as me saying I'm a Tory

Like over half the country, Tricky, you appear to not understand what has happened thus far. There was a referendum in which WHAT was to happen was decided by a first past the post vote. The HOW and the WHEN was then down to the politicians. First invoke Article 50 and then follow the rules laid down in it. May's deal was awful and was, rightly, voted down. BoJo's deal was even worse and also rightly voted down. No deal is even worse than the 2 deals voted down. An MPs job is to do the best he/she can for ther constituents. IMO in trying to get the best they can they are doing the job they were elected to do.

Things are now changing, instead of a handful of MPs wanting Article 50 revoked, there are currently a lot that want that. A GE is the best we can get IMO. Whether the aprties want it or not, it will be their stance on Brexit that gets votes. Tories want out at any price. LibDem want in. Labour wants to negotiate a new deal and then put it to another referendum. SNP wants in AND independence.

Then we have the Brexit Party who want out yesterday with a clean break. A stance many agree with. Those "in the know" think no deal is akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Where will it all end?

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=MadAmster;39356924]

Like over half the country, Tricky, you appear to not understand what has happened thus far. There was a referendum in which WHAT was to happen was decided by a first past the post vote. The HOW and the WHEN was then down to the politicians. First invoke Article 50 and then follow the rules laid down in it. May's deal was awful and was, rightly, voted down. BoJo's deal was even worse and also rightly voted down. No deal is even worse than the 2 deals voted down. An MPs job is to do the best he/she can for ther constituents. IMO in trying to get the best they can they are doing the job they were elected to do.

Things are now changing, instead of a handful of MPs wanting Article 50 revoked, there are currently a lot that want that. A GE is the best we can get IMO. Whether the aprties want it or not, it will be their stance on Brexit that gets votes. Tories want out at any price. LibDem want in. Labour wants to negotiate a new deal and then put it to another referendum. SNP wants in AND independence.

Then we have the Brexit Party who want out yesterday with a clean break. A stance many agree with. Those "in the know" think no deal is akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Where will it all end?

Well put, ‘Amster.

The situation has become horribly complex and imo a tad futile.

We now have a General Election - nicknamed the ‘Brexit Election’ - called to ‘solve’ the problem but I doubt that it will.

For those still totally opposed to Brexit then a vote for the LibDems seems most logical, for those on the opposite side the Brexit Party must somehow make sense. Both the Labour Party and the Tories remain unevenly split between Leave and Remain and in the meantime the Greens - who are hugely relevant to the World’s greatest issues - remain largely irrelevant to the more insular question of Brexit.

The outcome - once the results in Scotland, Wales and NI are factored in - is, again imo, likely to be another ‘hung Parliament’ and the end of at least one Party leader but where will that leave us?

[Trickytreesreds]

[QUOTE=MadAmster;39356924]

Like over half the country, Tricky, you appear to not understand what has happened thus far. There was a referendum in which WHAT was to happen was decided by a first past the post vote. The HOW and the WHEN was then down to the politicians. First invoke Article 50 and then follow the rules laid down in it. May's deal was awful and was, rightly, voted down. BoJo's deal was even worse and also rightly voted down. No deal is even worse than the 2 deals voted down. An MPs job is to do the best he/she can for ther constituents. IMO in trying to get the best they can they are doing the job they were elected to do.

Things are now changing, instead of a handful of MPs wanting Article 50 revoked, there are currently a lot that want that. A GE is the best we can get IMO. Whether the aprties want it or not, it will be their stance on Brexit that gets votes. Tories want out at any price. LibDem want in. Labour wants to negotiate a new deal and then put it to another referendum. SNP wants in AND independence.

Then we have the Brexit Party who want out yesterday with a clean break. A stance many agree with. Those "in the know" think no deal is akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Where will it all end?

Yes Amster I get all that.
1. All the main parties promised to respect that vote and carry it out
2. There is a hard core of MP's who won't do that and want NO BREXIT at any cost
3. You could put a pixie dust offer on the table and loads of them would reject it
4. The main parties have used this for their own personal agenda's

Like a boomerang it comes back. The people were asked a question. A once in a generation decision. Make it count.
This lot makes that statement mean diddly squat.
Apoint which MR is ignoring with me. I'll vote for whoever delivers what was promised.
It needs sweeping off the table and back we go to domestic politics.

The vote figures

https://fullfact.org/online/referendum-results-by-constituency/

Now look at the parliament figures.

:: 480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives

:: 159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives

:: 11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservatives

This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.

The problem lies here. IT ALWAYS HAS.

[MadAmster]

All parties fought the last GE on a platform of organising Brexit. 2 years got wasted because May didn't think it was time yet to formulate what she wanted as a deal so the EU did it for her. ****e deal it was too. BoJo's mess is even worse. The prat removed the clauses on worker rights, consumer rights and environmental protection knowing full well Labour could never support that omission.

MPs have actually been doing their job in trying to get the best possible circumstances for their constituents. In the beginning they were right to do so. I don't blame a single MP who voted down two damned awful deals. No Deal will break the Tories precious Union, robbing them of the 20 odd billion a year they make out of the Scots. A good deal will help both the UK and the EU.

Cut the ties between the UK and the EIB which could still cost the UK up to 40 billion over the next couple of decades.

Independence? The deal says any future UK trade deals will come under ECJ Law. Awful.

I know the public is fed up of the whole sorry mess. Now, MPs who, against their better knowledge, decided to go with Brexit are now looking to stop Brexit.

IMO no deal is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The EU put their proposal together by October 2016. It was a full 2 years later before May and her cabinet came up with her Chequers deal. Why so late? IMO they either wanted BRINO or No Brexit and have been angling for that ever since.

What are the choices? Basically none. Labour is no longer the party of the working class. I suspect a Tory/Brexit landslide and the 1% will be rubing their little hands in glee at 5 more years of tax breaks for them and little to nothing for the masses.

[swaledale]

Rubbish, but that's your opinion.

He gave the electorate a chance to voice their discontent. To upset the arrogant status quo that has endured for long enough. 2 parties doing what the hell they liked, with the Lib dims jumping in when it suited.
No one listened or gave a flying to what was being protested.
UKIP then the Brexit party have caused enough of a stink to make a difference.

Would we have ever got a vote without UKIP? No we wouldn't.
But democracy doesn't go hand in hand with lots in parliament.
We got a vote and it shocked them.
Then May got arrogant, so the Brexit party pushed its way to the front.
Ignore it at your peril Boris.

As was endorsed by Juncker, he couldn't believe that UKIP only had one seat, after pooling more votes than the SNP/Libs/Greens put together.

As for the cushy EU job you bang on about. He doesn't want it. He wants it dissolved. But enough UK residents have sent him back to keep the pressure on.
You and the EU may not like that, but he's only there by public choice.
Don't want him there, vote him out.
That's democracy for you. Oooooooops that's a can of worms reply

As usual your knowledge of history is sketchy to say the lest. Farage didn't give the people a referendum, bloody Cameron did. Albeit, his crazed ramblings may have spooked the tories somewhat, there has always been a significant bunch of loony old conservatives who have bitched and moaned about the Eu, plus of course Johnson who wrote completely false articles he made up about the Eu in the daily Torygraph!

IF the people actually wanted Farage they would have voted him or a UKIP Mp before now, but they haven't only in the EU elections where turn out is poor and people register protest votes safe in the knowledge that none of the loonies they vote for will do anything.

It does make me laugh when I hear some people praising Farage, especially those who at the lower end of the income scale, that they are daft enough to believe this guy has their interests at heart just shows how pernicious the right wing propoganda put out by the right wing media is - either that or some of these people are so bloody stupid, which given your posts is entirely believable.

Farage is a member of the rich right wing elite, who do you think is funding the Brexit party? Oh just people who are billionaires and happen to have a fincial interest in Brexit. Do you actually think these people have one iota of interest in the plight of the poor and disenfranchised in the UK? Of course they don't but hey ho, I hear 3 million of these pillocks "read" the Sun, run by a foreign billionaire who has got rich from exploiting the stupid masses.

[swaledale]

All parties fought the last GE on a platform of organising Brexit. 2 years got wasted because May didn't think it was time yet to formulate what she wanted as a deal so the EU did it for her. ****e deal it was too. BoJo's mess is even worse. The prat removed the clauses on worker rights, consumer rights and environmental protection knowing full well Labour could never support that omission.

MPs have actually been doing their job in trying to get the best possible circumstances for their constituents. In the beginning they were right to do so. I don't blame a single MP who voted down two damned awful deals. No Deal will break the Tories precious Union, robbing them of the 20 odd billion a year they make out of the Scots. A good deal will help both the UK and the EU.

Cut the ties between the UK and the EIB which could still cost the UK up to 40 billion over the next couple of decades.

Independence? The deal says any future UK trade deals will come under ECJ Law. Awful.

I know the public is fed up of the whole sorry mess. Now, MPs who, against their better knowledge, decided to go with Brexit are now looking to stop Brexit.

IMO no deal is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The EU put their proposal together by October 2016. It was a full 2 years later before May and her cabinet came up with her Chequers deal. Why so late? IMO they either wanted BRINO or No Brexit and have been angling for that ever since.

What are the choices? Basically none. Labour is no longer the party of the working class. I suspect a Tory/Brexit landslide and the 1% will be rubing their little hands in glee at 5 more years of tax breaks for them and little to nothing for the masses.

I think you will find that Labour is more of a party for the working classes than any of the others! I realise the Right Wing media have been smearing Corbyn for years, though funny how they don't do the same to the lying cheating ******* that is the current PM! I also get it that Corbyn does not come across as a dynamic leader, though its odd when people acuse politicians of being smart suited conmen, they don't seem to like one who isn't!

The problem Corbyn has is twofold, he is lukewarm about the EU, that probably reflects the views of most sensible people, its far from perfect (there again show me an institution organisation run by humans that is!) but on balnce being in the EU is better than being out of it. If we do brexit, then a Norway style deal is probably the best we are likely to get, but of course this doesn't suit those tired old ****s who hark back to the days when the Uk was a major power!

Corbyn also understands that for whatever reason, many core labour voters voted for Brexit, not becuase they had any idea what that would mean, but largely because they were pissed off with their circumstances and are generally fearful of foreigners! So he has to find a middle way, whilst Johnson is just pandering to his core conservatives, still could be interesting come polling day, will enough people vote for a party led by a lying privileged member of the establishment elite that sure as egs is eggs will shaft them completely if they get enough power?

Must dash, I have to work out where in the EU I shall live if the Tories win a majority and then implement the equivalent of shooting oneself in both feet and one arm, enough to disable and cause pain, but just short of economic suicide.

[MadAmster]

Must dash, I have to work out where in the EU I shall live if the Tories win a majority and then implement the equivalent of shooting oneself in both feet and one arm, enough to disable and cause pain, but just short of economic suicide.

May I suggest the Netherlands, Swale? I have enjoyed living here for the past 35 years and, if I move anywhere, it will be to warmer climes such as a Mediterranean island or the Canaries or maybe the coast of Greece, Italy or Spain where the cost of living is friendly to OAP's like me.

Health care? Insurance based. I have a top of the line policy that covers everything I am likely to need and it costs about £110 a month. I also pay the first £320 a year of all treatment and medicines. The meds I am on cost £1400 a year. The causes behind my needing those meds mean I have to have blood tests twice a year for the Cardiologist for heart related issues. Another twice a year for my GP practice where the rest is checked. Dental costs are also covered.

The hospitals etc aren't profit making organisations so the prices are "normal". The same goes for the insurance companies on their health policies. That is enshrined in Law.

The locals are very friendly and 99% speak English which means they are already assimilated

Taxes are relatvely high but you get a lot back for your money.

[ramAnag]

‘Taxes are relatively high but you get a lot back for your money’.

Wise words...seldom heard and ones that put this election into perspective.

The Parties are currently falling over themselves to make spending promises as far as the big four of health, education, policing and care for the elderly are concerned, rather begging the question of what the last nine years of savage cuts have been all about.

But how can they? Firstly it is currently impossible to factor in the cost of Brexit - because we don’t know what ‘deal’ we’ll be getting - and secondly we have to grasp the nettle that a low tax economy seems incompatible with one which supports high public spending.

The public might, imo, tolerate the truth of taxes needing to rise if they are to ‘get a lot back for their money’ but they need politicians to be honest and they need to see such spending translated into genuine resources i.e. hospitals, nurses and doctors, as opposed to more managers. Teachers, resources and smaller class sizes rather than highly paid ‘executive heads’ who all too often know next to nothing about children and proper policemen/law enforcement officers who ‘walk’ the streets rather than spend half their working lives as reluctant form fillers.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Yes, but you know as well as I do that more lies are told at election times concerning increased spending plans than are told about ***** size on some of the more salubrious dating sites. And the latter is, I am told, a lot.

[mistaram]

Yes, but you know as well as I do that more lies are told at election times concerning increased spending plans than are told about ***** size on some of the more salubrious dating sites. And the latter is, I am told, a lot.

Yes Geoff but there are some of us who don't have to lie about *****size on web sites

[mistaram]

‘Taxes are relatively high but you get a lot back for your money’.

Wise words...seldom heard and ones that put this election into perspective.

The Parties are currently falling over themselves to make spending promises as far as the big four of health, education, policing and care for the elderly are concerned, rather begging the question of what the last nine years of savage cuts have been all about.

But how can they? Firstly it is currently impossible to factor in the cost of Brexit - because we don’t know what ‘deal’ we’ll be getting - and secondly we have to grasp the nettle that a low tax economy seems incompatible with one which supports high public spending.

The public might, imo, tolerate the truth of taxes needing to rise if they are to ‘get a lot back for their money’ but they need politicians to be honest and they need to see such spending translated into genuine resources i.e. hospitals, nurses and doctors, as opposed to more managers. Teachers, resources and smaller class sizes rather than highly paid ‘executive heads’ who all too often know next to nothing about children and proper policemen/law enforcement officers who ‘walk’ the streets rather than spend half their working lives as reluctant form fillers.

RA I watched Andrew Neil on Friday night interviewing Rishi Sunak chief Secretary to the Treasury . He was saying what they are going to spend on police, nhs, teachers etc Neil said to him us But your going to go to the money ,no we're not ,yes you are, well sort of, Neil there your going to borrow , yes but only because the economy is so strong and interest rates so low You couldn't make it up and they say Labour has a money tree