Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

Apologies for the word ‘German’ in my post (668). No idea how that got there…shouldn’t have.
Tricky…I understand some of the problems with immigration and I’m certainly not saying there aren’t issues to be sorted out. I also accept many of the problems with our coastal towns and resorts although there are additional longstanding reasons for that decline.
The answer though isn’t to demonise a group of unfortunate people and, in Farage’s case…imo…if it looks, acts and sounds like a racist then it probably is a racist.

Is it really racist, to point out the obvious? That people are coming here from far away, not out of desperation, but using the excuse to better their lives, with criminal gangs help. Desperate people, under 35 don't spend thousands, whilst leaving behind the women/kids/old/frail. Then cherry picking where they want seek "sactuary" . Neither do they go to said destination, turn the culture on its head, break the law and cause a crime wave.

[swaledale]

Farage becomes even more ridiculous if that's possible, claims to be "the real" politician, but demonstrates he is a spiv, a grifter a snake oil salesman for the dumb! Assessment of his "promises" see a cost of £75 billion plus, I mean Truss's ill thought out lunacy was only costed at £45 billion FFS!

IFS says Reform UK's plans 'don't add up' and would cost more than it claims 'by tens of billions of pounds per year'
The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK’s tax and spending plans and it says they “don’t add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year”.

[SithHappens]

Farage becomes even more ridiculous if that's possible, claims to be "the real" politician, but demonstrates he is a spiv, a grifter a snake oil salesman for the dumb! Assessment of his "promises" see a cost of £75 billion plus, I mean Truss's ill thought out lunacy was only costed at £45 billion FFS!

IFS says Reform UK's plans 'don't add up' and would cost more than it claims 'by tens of billions of pounds per year'
The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK’s tax and spending plans and it says they “don’t add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year”.

He can say anything he likes in his manifesto, could promise to cure cancer and put a brit (a white one of course) on Mars by Christmas.

He's never ever going to have to be held accountable to it, likewise his campaigning for brexit, he was never going to have to sort it out.

[ramAnag]

I share GP’s reluctance to raise taxes/throw money at ‘it’UNTIL two other things happen - firstly, serious efforts at process improvement (my normally placid manner ALMOST cracked at the lazy inefficiencies I came across relating to a medical appointment I had last week) and secondly efforts relating to my mantra ‘help those who can’t help themselves not those who won’t help themselves (or only help themselves to benefits/riches unfairly). I think you’ll find the latter is pretty much on the MA manifesto.

I agree with GPs comment that opinions are widely drawn rather than personal

With respect Andy this is what you do. You personalise situations and then apply the lowest common denominator. You ‘share GP’s reluctance to raise taxes’ because yesterday/last week/six months ago you personally witnessed some inefficiency that annoyed you. You don’t like the idea of migrants from Asia/North Africa because they’re likely to be Muslim and a tiny minority of Muslims are involved in terrorism.
I’m surprised you actually attend football matches because a larger minority of football fans are hooligans and as for those bands you go on about and gigs you attend…they’ve got a fair proportion of smackheads and dope smokers amongst them you know.

We all have our prejudices. It’s easy to condemn Catholics because of the behaviour of a minority of priests…or the police because of half a dozen recent rapists…or even accountants because a minority are crooked, but you can’t set policies according to the lowest common denominators.

At the moment nobody, other than the Greens who aren’t going to get in anyway, will actually be brave enough to support tax rises but I think that’s what has to happen if our schools, surgeries, hospitals, roads and emergency services are going to be funded appropriately and fairly. I don’t want to fund wastefulness any more than you do, but about a month ago I had the privilege of watching one of my grandsons play cricket for a visiting representative U11 side at what is probably Derbyshire’s premier public school. The facilities were amazing…it didn’t make me jealous, it just made me think, shouldn’t we aspire to all kids having such opportunities? Shouldn’t we aspire to all people having access to the same cancer treatment as the King and his daughter in law and if not…why not? I think it’s called levelling up and probably the only way of doing it is by paying for more and better trained teachers, more and better trained nurses and doctors etc with those who can most afford it carrying the biggest financial burden. It might make you and I a little worse off in the short term. Then again we’re all getting older and I quite like the idea of my grandchildren not talking about yet another poor supply teacher, the queue for any medical treatment we may need being shorter and our roads not being pothole riddled death traps. Properly targeted taxes might achieve that.

[Trickytreesreds]

He can say anything he likes in his manifesto, could promise to cure cancer and put a brit (a white one of course) on Mars by Christmas.

He's never ever going to have to be held accountable to it, likewise his campaigning for brexit, he was never going to have to sort it out.

With respect, if the "establishment" Had listened to Farages rants years ago, the pain would be less now. He predicted what cheap imported Labour would do to the country. So it has proven. GDP per capita drops 5 years running, to an all time low.
Starmer/Rayner complain about the lack of training/ investment in our own people, when their party started it FFS. You couldn't make it up,

Now they want the minimum wage raising again and all the Finance guru's are screaming foul! HSBC predict higer interest rates and more costs.
If only someone had thought of this earlier? Oh, wait a minute .............................

[Trickytreesreds]

With respect Andy this is what you do. You personalise situations and then apply the lowest common denominator. You ‘share GP’s reluctance to raise taxes’ because yesterday/last week/six months ago you personally witnessed some inefficiency that annoyed you. You don’t like the idea of migrants from Asia/North Africa because they’re likely to be Muslim and a tiny minority of Muslims are involved in terrorism.
I’m surprised you actually attend football matches because a larger minority of football fans are hooligans and as for those bands you go on about and gigs you attend…they’ve got a fair proportion of smackheads and dope smokers amongst them you know.

We all have our prejudices. It’s easy to condemn Catholics because of the behaviour of a minority of priests…or the police because of half a dozen recent rapists…or even accountants because a minority are crooked, but you can’t set policies according to the lowest common denominators.

At the moment nobody, other than the Greens who aren’t going to get in anyway, will actually be brave enough to support tax rises but I think that’s what has to happen if our schools, surgeries, hospitals, roads and emergency services are going to be funded appropriately and fairly. I don’t want to fund wastefulness any more than you do, but about a month ago I had the privilege of watching one of my grandsons play cricket for a visiting representative U11 side at what is probably Derbyshire’s premier public school. The facilities were amazing…it didn’t make me jealous, it just made me think, shouldn’t we aspire to all kids having such opportunities? Shouldn’t we aspire to all people having access to the same cancer treatment as the King and his daughter in law and if not…why not? I think it’s called levelling up and probably the only way of doing it is by paying for more and better trained teachers, more and better trained nurses and doctors etc with those who can most afford it carrying the biggest financial burden. It might make you and I a little worse off in the short term. Then again we’re all getting older and I quite like the idea of my grandchildren not talking about yet another poor supply teacher, the queue for any medical treatment we may need being shorter and our roads not being pothole riddled death traps. Properly targeted taxes might achieve that.

And I would agree with a lot of that. But you have to be careful. Labour /Greens espacially seem to believe the super rich will fund it. The greens manifesto was dependent on the mystical billions they'll raise from this super tax. When asked as to plan B if they bog off out the country, they were flumexed.
No one mentions Reform want everyone under 20k to pay no tax to help get people in work . Once they are, the tax pool will grow over time, but benefits are the better option for the two main paries for years. Now Sunak, wants to target the sick / out work without even a carrot.

Andy is fully right about wastage though. The country is riddled with it. From the government itself, to the state owned services themselves

We spend as much as france on healthcare, but their service is much superior. Throwing money at everything willy nilly is not the answer. Its like throwing money at an alky, he'll just spend it.

Let me give you classic example of time in NHS hospital. After 6 weeks in there, they were finally getting me, to take in tiny food orally.
A doctor came, looked at my charts and wanted a full dietry course of protein shakes , before discharge.
5 days later when the time came, another doctor was so pleased as to the amount of solid food I could stand, he said that the milky drinks were not needed.
A chemist assistant came, just befoe I left with a sack fully of 200 of these drinks.
The sister said, not needed now and the assistant said, well I can't take them back, they've been issued,
At which point the whole bag went in the skip?

I was gob smacked and said to the sister, surely that's not right?
She shrugged her shoulders and replied thats the system for you.

Surreal.

[ramAnag]

And I would agree with a lot of that. But you have to be careful. Labour /Greens espacially seem to believe the super rich will fund it. The greens manifesto was dependent on the mystical billions they'll raise from this super tax. When asked as to plan B if they bog off out the country, they were flumexed.
No one mentions Reform want everyone under 20k to pay no tax to help get people in work . Once they are, the tax pool will grow over time, but benefits are the better option for the two main paries for years. Now Sunak, wants to target the sick / out work without even a carrot.

Andy is fully right about wastage though. The country is riddled with it. From the government itself, to the state owned services themselves

We spend as much as france on healthcare, but their service is much superior. Throwing money at everything willy nilly is not the answer. Its like throwing money at an alky, he'll just spend it.

Let me give you classic example of time in NHS hospital. After 6 weeks in there, they were finally getting me, to take in tiny food orally.
A doctor came, looked at my charts and wanted a full dietry course of protein shakes , before discharge.
5 days later when the time came, another doctor was so pleased as to the amount of solid food I could stand, he said that the milky drinks were not needed.
A chemist assistant came, just befoe I left with a sack fully of 200 of these drinks.
The sister said, not needed now and the assistant said, well I can't take them back, they've been issued,
At which point the whole bag went in the skip?

I was gob smacked and said to the sister, surely that's not right?
She shrugged her shoulders and replied thats the system for you.

Surreal.

Which bit of ‘properly targeted’ - an expression I’ve used throughout - did you miss?
I have never mentioned ‘throwing money at everything willy nilly’ and that has never been my suggestion.

[Trickytreesreds]

Which bit of ‘properly targeted’ - an expression I’ve used throughout - did you miss?
I have never mentioned ‘throwing money at everything willy nilly’ and that has never been my suggestion.

I not really saying you are, but the Greens / Labour seem to be suggesting it.
We can all talk of tax rises, but seeing as we already pay record tax levels now, when you talk about happy to pay more tax, alot of folks twitch.

MORE TAX MAYBE, BUT MASSIVE CUTS ARE ALSO NEEDED, to make the pot of money go around.
We have a lot of departments in this country, who are not productive and wasteful at the same time.

I want tax money spent here on us. Not sent abroad, nor frittered away on incoming immigration.

My sister was emigrating to New Zealand with the family, and it was shocking to realise what YOU WOULD NOT GET for 5 years.
From housing help/ Medical/ Benefits/ absolute zero. you even had to have a pot of money set up, for your flight home, should you loose your job.
Is that applied here? yearh right.

Tax, no problem from me, if it means the belt is tightened and the leaking pipes are fixed that syphon off what we thrown in.

[Andy_Faber]

With respect Andy this is what you do. You personalise situations and then apply the lowest common denominator. You ‘share GP’s reluctance to raise taxes’ because yesterday/last week/six months ago you personally witnessed some inefficiency that annoyed you. You don’t like the idea of migrants from Asia/North Africa because they’re likely to be Muslim and a tiny minority of Muslims are involved in terrorism.
I’m surprised you actually attend football matches because a larger minority of football fans are hooligans and as for those bands you go on about and gigs you attend…they’ve got a fair proportion of smackheads and dope smokers amongst them you know.

We all have our prejudices. It’s easy to condemn Catholics because of the behaviour of a minority of priests…or the police because of half a dozen recent rapists…or even accountants because a minority are crooked, but you can’t set policies according to the lowest common denominators.

I can’t really offer a response to that beyond suggesting that your criticism is a bit of a scattergunning effort.

And please don’t presume about the gigs I attend. Lots of boozing for sure but the type of gigs I’ve been to over the years have been pretty clean of drugs, I’m only commenting on what I’ve seen not what gossip does the rounds. The gigs I go to these days are probably the safest place I go in public. Full of gammons…

[swaledale]

I not really saying you are, but the Greens / Labour seem to be suggesting it.
We can all talk of tax rises, but seeing as we already pay record tax levels now, when you talk about happy to pay more tax, alot of folks twitch.

MORE TAX MAYBE, BUT MASSIVE CUTS ARE ALSO NEEDED, to make the pot of money go around.
We have a lot of departments in this country, who are not productive and wasteful at the same time.

I want tax money spent here on us. Not sent abroad, nor frittered away on incoming immigration.

My sister was emigrating to New Zealand with the family, and it was shocking to realise what YOU WOULD NOT GET for 5 years.
From housing help/ Medical/ Benefits/ absolute zero. you even had to have a pot of money set up, for your flight home, should you loose your job.
Is that applied here? yearh right.

Tax, no problem from me, if it means the belt is tightened and the leaking pipes are fixed that syphon off what we thrown in.

Apart from the fact the economic benefits of migration are well researched and proven, the fact tha migrants make a net contribution to the economy is also proven, the *******s about it contributing to the economic decline over the past few years is repeated by people who haven't a clue. Brexit on the other hand has ****ed the economy and Farage has never been right about anything, his so called freeze on immigration is nothing of the sort, he has admitted that the Uk would still need immigration for a wide range of jobs, so not zero then is it? Its a ****ing fantasy peddled so simpletons like you will swallow it.

The simple reason that services are poor and can't cope is the austerity that was inflicted by the coalition and Tory government, you can't sack 20,000 experienced Police officers and wonder why crime increases, you can't cut spending by 40% and wonder why services are declining. You can't not replace the council/social housing thats been sold off - and have a miilon empty , second or holiday homes and wonder why there is a housing crisis.

I could go on, but any sentient person would look at whats happened and think, the rich have got richer and there are more of them,, the gap between those on average incomes and the rich has increased who the **** has got all the money then?

But as Hitler demonstrated in the 1930's, pick a group to blame and the thick simpletons will follow suit ignoring the obvious truth.

[swaledale]

I can’t really offer a response to that beyond suggesting that your criticism is a bit of a scattergunning effort.

And please don’t presume about the gigs I attend. Lots of boozing for sure but the type of gigs I’ve been to over the years have been pretty clean of drugs, I’m only commenting on what I’ve seen not what gossip does the rounds. The gigs I go to these days are probably the safest place I go in public. Full of gammons…

How the **** would you know they were pretty clean of drugs? I mean when even cabinet Ministers are known to enjoy a line of coke I'd say the average person is completely unaware of the level of drug use amongst the "respectable" types

[Andy_Faber]

How the **** would you know they were pretty clean of drugs? I mean when even cabinet Ministers are known to enjoy a line of coke I'd say the average person is completely unaware of the level of drug use amongst the "respectable" types

Sorry you’re not making sense either, I was talking about concert-goers and musicians.

[ramAnag]

I can’t really offer a response to that beyond suggesting that your criticism is a bit of a scattergunning effort.

And please don’t presume about the gigs I attend. Lots of boozing for sure but the type of gigs I’ve been to over the years have been pretty clean of drugs, I’m only commenting on what I’ve seen not what gossip does the rounds. The gigs I go to these days are probably the safest place I go in public. Full of gammons…

‘A bit scattergun’. Tbh AF maybe one has to be with you at times, such is your tendency towards ducking and diving and general evasiveness.
Here we have a classic example. You concentrate on the more lighthearted part of my point - answering very naively imo but that’s irrelevant for now - and totally ignore the more relevant part…even ‘deselecting’ it from the quoted post.

So, I’ll ask again…and yes I know at the moment it’s largely hypothetical, but this is a question of principle rather than the practical fine tuning.

IF you were asked to pay an extra (and hypothetical) £200 per year in income tax in the knowledge that, again hypothetically, 20% would go to improving schools, 20% would go to the NHS, 20% would go to restoring our polluted rivers and coastlines, 20% to addressing the need for decent elderly care and 20% to our emergency services…would you think that reasonable?

[Andy_Faber]

‘A bit scattergun’. Tbh AF maybe one has to be with you at times, such is your tendency towards ducking and diving and general evasiveness.
Here we have a classic example. You concentrate on the more lighthearted part of my point - answering very naively imo but that’s irrelevant for now - and totally ignore the more relevant part…even ‘deselecting’ it from the quoted post.

So, I’ll ask again…and yes I know at the moment it’s largely hypothetical, but this is a question of principle rather than the practical fine tuning.

IF you were asked to pay an extra (and hypothetical) £200 per year in income tax in the knowledge that, again hypothetically, 20% would go to improving schools, 20% would go to the NHS, 20% would go to restoring our polluted rivers and coastlines, 20% to addressing the need for decent elderly care and 20% to our emergency services…would you think that reasonable?

Simple answer, no, because they aren’t my priority mix of services. No use having hood schools if the kids are all being taught Russian for example. If you rephrased it as ‘all social services with my priorities in the mix, and at least 90 efficient use’ then yes, no-one likes paying taxes but I realise the need for them.

[Andy_Faber]

Simple answer, no, because they aren’t my priority mix of services. No use having hood schools if the kids are all being taught Russian for example. If you rephrased it as ‘all social services with my priorities in the mix, and at least 90 efficient use’ then yes, no-one likes paying taxes but I realise the need for them.

Good not hood obviously