O/T:- Trump Presidency 2.0 [hic sunt dracones]

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

I too, wasn't a Trump supporter initially. I only knew of him as property developer and wealthy businessman. I didn't even know that he had a TV programme.

For years I felt that there was a separation between the working person and the government though. I felt it in when I lived the UK and I feel it where I live now.

Trump came along and shook up the establishment. On top on that, being an entrepreneur he knew how to get things done. That really resonated with me and I can now see entirely why and how he does things. It kind of turned on a light.

The small minded bigots that berate him, in my opinion, either have a vested interest in bleeding their country dry, as we saw in the US before the last US election (and currently see with the USAID driven protests in LA and other US cities) or they are too lazy to do in-depth research into what he has achieved and how it was done, so just parrot speak and repeat what the former are telling them.

That is what winds me up more than anything - the laziness of debate. No proof, no facts, just regurgitated left-wing garbage (as the Americans would say).

You are of course entitled to interpret his career as you see it. I see a man who was given a property company by his Dad, and who went on to have several ventures file for bankruptcy. Not exactly an average Joe made good.
He may not be stellar at selling real estate, but what I can credit him with is an incredible ability to sell himself. And that's what he's done politically. The Americans seem to like big egos in a way Brits just can't get their head around.

I am curious as to how far the cult of Trump can take him. We already know the playbook. Rules are for others. Create chaos and use it to your advantage. Never acknowledge weakness or blame If things go wrong. If he follows through on most of what he's proposing, things could go very wrong economically but it will be someone else's fault. Someone will be called 'horrible' and 'nasty'.

But will the public swallow it? Can he take them with him? Or will they realise his worst nightmare and decide he's the one thing he'd despise most of all. A loser.

[Jampie]

I'm not a Trump supporter, but it seems pretty obvious to me that that was his plan. He got what he wanted through the threat of tariffs. This isn't a novel approach. Leaders use leverage all the time. I agree that it won't work with Xi, who is a much smarter and more wily adversary, but it seems to have worked with Mexico.

What you say about Trump supporters is largely true. But the same goes for those on the other side as well. People on the left will ignore anything positive that comes out of the Trump presidency, or spin stuff to make it look worse. Both sides do this all the time, so let's not pretend otherwise.

Yeah I definitely am not in the camp where I think "the left" are angelic beings who never engage in deception, lies of omission (actually the standard MO for lefty press when the truth is uncomfortable), hypocrisy, ignoring science etc etc. Like I keep saying, this isn't really about left or right for me. Most of the "left vs. right" narrative is manufactured and all too convenient for the people who are actually in power (check who owns the media!). Gets the poors snapping at each other over nothing while everything of value is hoovered up in the background.

However, I just don't believe the ever-shifting narrative (multiple ever-shifting narratives) about Trump having a coherent master plan. If he changes his mind again and slugs Canada and Mexico with tariffs on Monday, his supporters will claim THAT was the master plan. If we never hear about these tariffs again, the master plan will have been the "concessions" given by Mexico and Canada and the narrative that he had an election mandate to impose tariffs will be conveniently forgotten.

Whatever Trump does will be right and good, and whatever anyone does that counters him will be wrong and bad. Like Trudeau was the bad guy for imposing tariffs in response to Trump doing it first, but Trump was fine for doing it first. There is no logic. It's just slavish, mindless worship of someone who is utterly, bafflingly unworthy of it.

In 2016 I tried watching one of his speeches, couldn't sit through it. It was embarrassingly bad. He isn't coherent. He's gotten worse since. I have read a few transcripts though and he demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of a wide range of issues and has trouble holding a train of thought for more than a few seconds. In an interview (back then) he was asked for his opinion on the nuclear triad and his answer made it abundantly clear he had no idea what it was. Now if you or I don't know that, no dramas. But a presidential candidate should be well versed and have a strong view on it.

He also acts like a literal child and uses childish language. I just do not see the master strategist his fanclub insist is in there somewhere. Setting aside his conviction for criminal fraud and mountains of evidence for his other crimes, including actual election interference last time (which he was loudly accusing everyone else of), he is just temperamentally and intellectually not suited to the role of a world leader, let alone of the most powerful nation.

His administration will achieve some good things. They will pale in comparison to the damage he does in the meantime. He's extracted some dubious/questionable concessions from Mexico and Canada, and in the process loudly and publicly destroyed both relationships and wrecked the US's reputation. He will spend the next four years stumbling from one pyrrhic victory to the next while his supporters cheer him on.

It's going to be exceedingly dull. I am ignoring the discussion pretty much everywhere but this board, in fact.

[Lullapie]

You are of course entitled to interpret his career as you see it. I see a man who was given a property company by his Dad, and who went on to have several ventures file for bankruptcy. Not exactly an average Joe made good.
He may not be stellar at selling real estate, but what I can credit him with is an incredible ability to sell himself. And that's what he's done politically. The Americans seem to like big egos in a way Brits just can't get their head around.

I am curious as to how far the cult of Trump can take him. We already know the playbook. Rules are for others. Create chaos and use it to your advantage. Never acknowledge weakness or blame If things go wrong. If he follows through on most of what he's proposing, things could go very wrong economically but it will be someone else's fault. Someone will be called 'horrible' and 'nasty'.

But will the public swallow it? Can he take them with him? Or will they realise his worst nightmare and decide he's the one thing he'd despise most of all. A loser.

Will the public swallow it? That's a shocking statement to make and quite patronising. I think you'll find that over three elections 63 million, 74 million and 77 million respectively voted for him. Are you inferring that many voted for him on a whim or because they weren't intelligent enough to know better?

I think you'll also find that Trump is doing something that the Democrats have never done (and many Republican Presidents haven't done either) since time immemorial and that is do what he said he was going to do.

I believe you'll find that many of the Democratic Party voters and leaders are well below Trump's intellectual level. if you want proof, look how the Democrats are carrying out their National Committee election - a complete mess.

Give the American people a bit more credit. After all, at least they didn't vote in someone like the leader of the UK Labour Party.

[Lullapie]

Last week Trump said that the tariffs on Canada and Mexico start tomorrow. He was asked if there was anything they could do to stop that happening. His answer was an unequivocal, ?No?.

But now he has dropped the tariffs. So yes, he has backed down.

Yes, you keep believing what makes sense in your head.

You obviously can't understand Trump's modus operandi although there is plenty of historical evidence out there to show what it is.

[Lullapie]

My proof is that you said "We've seen the effects of that over the last few years".

Who has been in power for the vast majority of those last few years?

In case you're struggling, the answer begins with T and ends with ories.

Show me your proof where the Tories have changed or destroyed and rewritten history to suit their agenda - that's all I ask. As per usual, you make claims and can't supply one example.

[Lullapie]

Regionally, Nottingham the absurd Labour council that have ruined the city and criminally wasted so much money.

There is a bigger picture out there you don?t want to see or acknowledge

I asked him to provide proof in his claim that the Tories have rewritten history and destroyed our heritage. He made a generic, wild claim and as per usual can't back it up.

[Jampie]

I asked him to provide proof in his claim that the Tories have rewritten history and destroyed our heritage. He made a generic, wild claim and as per usual can't back it up.

Speaking of wild claims not backed up... what happened to the 4 billion a day in savings, or the evidence I've lied about something?

[The Dug Out]

So, another "big one" from POTUS,Donald sees Gaza as the new Monaco. Clear out all the Hamas tribe and all that is connected to them, no holds barred,flatten the place from top to bottom, inject trillions of dollars into a re-build and presto you have a desirable place to live, in peace and prosperity.
Probably the best decision since 1947 when Sir Winston was running the show. if only the Palastinians would take off their tea towels, put down their AK 47's and live in the real world, they could actually have a meaningful life with a lot of prosperity at their disposal.

Looks like Mr Trump is making the decision that nobody else dares to dream of or even mention.

[Med Pie]

So, another "big one" from POTUS,Donald sees Gaza as the new Monaco. Clear out all the Hamas tribe and all that is connected to them, no holds barred,flatten the place from top to bottom, inject trillions of dollars into a re-build and presto you have a desirable place to live, in peace and prosperity.
Probably the best decision since 1947 when Sir Winston was running the show. if only the Palastinians would take off their tea towels, put down their AK 47's and live in the real world, they could actually have a meaningful life with a lot of prosperity at their disposal.

Looks like Mr Trump is making the decision that nobody else dares to dream of or even mention.

You mean forced expulsion, ethnic cleansing. He's giving Netanyahu, exactly what he wants, if the Palestinians are moved from Gaza, Israel will illegally, annexe and expand. The Palestinians will never be allowed to return.

[Med Pie]

No need for a regional debate everyone knows that Labour have fecked up big time in Nottingham and ruined the city, pointless to debate.

Why, when so much needs to be done in the City, did the council, have millions ?????? in an Icelandic bank when so much could have been done with it.

https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/council-counts-cost-of-iceland-collapse-03-11-2009/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-67580333

From another article on the same topic

'The message is simple: expenditure, fuelled by inflation and exploding demand for services, exceeds resources, depleted after years of austerity.'

That 'exploding demand' is the huge, unending, influx of mainly, illegal, migrants.

[slack_pie]

Like you are bot a Trump supoorter I am not a die hard anti Trumper. By that I mean I think he is an awful person to have in a position of power but his chaos theory management of situations and willingness to say things against the grain can be and have been useful. I also agree that governments often use leverage over each other. What we often call diplomacy, which sounds like a nice friendly chat, is often a euphemism for an exchange of threats and favours.

I think what separates the Trump administration from others is the theatre of it all. He runs his government like a reality TV show. Can you remember North Korea missile testing a few years ago? One minute he was threatening to bomb them back to the stone age, the next he was doing a summit in front of the world's cameras and saving the world. IMO the exact same result would normally have been achieved, but away from public view.

The concessions he has gained from his tariffs (which were announced then postponed then reannounced on a Friday for a Tuesday, probably to give his ITK friends time to short the S&P 500 before it was all walked back) are very limited. Trump 1.0 obtained a Mexico troop deployment, as did Biden in 2021 (without the theatre). For his part Trump ceded a promise to stop the flow of weapons from the US to Mexico. The bulk of what Canada 'conceded' was already announced under Biden in December 2024.

Nothing that any of the three countries have conceded or gained is particularly unusual or significant, as far as I can tell. The reason for doing it like this could be to keep the Trump show in the news because that's the way he likes it, or just to throw some red meat to the Lullapies of the world who want to see the strong man WINNING!, or for some other reason we don't know yet.

Mexico troops deployments under Biden: https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...al-2021-04-12/

Canada border security and Fentanyl disruption initiatives from Dec 2024: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safe...on-system.html

Can't argue with that. Worth remembering that the American psyche is very different to ours. Trump's bombastic nature and habit of making grandiose statements wouldn't work here, but it appeals very much to the average American.

He's a bit like a caricature of a "strong" leader and does most things for effect. As a result, he tends to over-promise and underdeliver, or make statements that sound great but have little basis in reality. His target audience lap it up though, so he continues.

I think he's probably more measured in "real" life than the caricature he presents to the world, but who knows.

[slack_pie]

Yeah I definitely am not in the camp where I think "the left" are angelic beings who never engage in deception, lies of omission (actually the standard MO for lefty press when the truth is uncomfortable), hypocrisy, ignoring science etc etc. Like I keep saying, this isn't really about left or right for me. Most of the "left vs. right" narrative is manufactured and all too convenient for the people who are actually in power (check who owns the media!). Gets the poors snapping at each other over nothing while everything of value is hoovered up in the background.

However, I just don't believe the ever-shifting narrative (multiple ever-shifting narratives) about Trump having a coherent master plan. If he changes his mind again and slugs Canada and Mexico with tariffs on Monday, his supporters will claim THAT was the master plan. If we never hear about these tariffs again, the master plan will have been the "concessions" given by Mexico and Canada and the narrative that he had an election mandate to impose tariffs will be conveniently forgotten.

Whatever Trump does will be right and good, and whatever anyone does that counters him will be wrong and bad. Like Trudeau was the bad guy for imposing tariffs in response to Trump doing it first, but Trump was fine for doing it first. There is no logic. It's just slavish, mindless worship of someone who is utterly, bafflingly unworthy of it.

In 2016 I tried watching one of his speeches, couldn't sit through it. It was embarrassingly bad. He isn't coherent. He's gotten worse since. I have read a few transcripts though and he demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of a wide range of issues and has trouble holding a train of thought for more than a few seconds. In an interview (back then) he was asked for his opinion on the nuclear triad and his answer made it abundantly clear he had no idea what it was. Now if you or I don't know that, no dramas. But a presidential candidate should be well versed and have a strong view on it.

He also acts like a literal child and uses childish language. I just do not see the master strategist his fanclub insist is in there somewhere. Setting aside his conviction for criminal fraud and mountains of evidence for his other crimes, including actual election interference last time (which he was loudly accusing everyone else of), he is just temperamentally and intellectually not suited to the role of a world leader, let alone of the most powerful nation.

His administration will achieve some good things. They will pale in comparison to the damage he does in the meantime. He's extracted some dubious/questionable concessions from Mexico and Canada, and in the process loudly and publicly destroyed both relationships and wrecked the US's reputation. He will spend the next four years stumbling from one pyrrhic victory to the next while his supporters cheer him on.

It's going to be exceedingly dull. I am ignoring the discussion pretty much everywhere but this board, in fact.

I agree about his temperament. He doesn't do himself any favours in the way he talks and acts. But like I said in a previous post, his target audience enjoy it, so he keep on doing it. I have no idea if there's a masterplan or not, but I'm fairly sure he's not the completely unhinged idiot the left makes him out to be.

That said, he's clearly not president material by any reasonable measure. Whether you agree with their views or not, the likes of JD Vance and Vivek Ramaswamy are in a different league in terms of intellect and temperament.

Like you, I think his administration could achieve some positive, much-needed outcomes. If they can shine a light on government inefficiency and wastefulness, that could provide a blueprint for other nations (like ours) to follow. The same goes for illegal/uncontrolled immigration, which isn't even a left-right issue but more about the rule of law and integrity of borders. Time will tell whether the positives outweigh the negatives though.

[Old_pie]

In the days of the terrorism of the PLO and at the time of the troubles in Ireland I had envisaged a solution of moving the Irish to Palestine and the Palestinians to Ireland. Perhaps I should have run for office in the USA.

[The Dug Out]

You mean forced expulsion, ethnic cleansing. He's giving Netanyahu, exactly what he wants, if the Palestinians are moved from Gaza, Israel will illegally, annexe and expand. The Palestinians will never be allowed to return.

Mis quoted again, the Palestinians will be able to live there.Throughout time nations & people have had to be guided through to make them decent people, same here.
The alternative with Gaza is to rinse and and repeat, which does not and has not worked,POTUS has an idea, a solution and it is liked by a lot of others in the middle east, obviously not the terrorists, who need wiping out.

[The Dug Out]

In the days of the terrorism of the PLO and at the time of the troubles in Ireland I had envisaged a solution of moving the Irish to Palestine and the Palestinians to Ireland. Perhaps I should have run for office in the USA.

Great idea, out of the box thinking.