Wimbledon post match thoughts.

[NorthWestCorner]

I think another relegation will be a disaster, it might not kill us as fans but it could kill the club. This is our centenary year for gods sake and we have fans thinking relegation is fine, I am gobsmacked. I don't agree with NWC that MH should go, I do think he needs help, he needs help in sorting out the injuries (a lot of clubs use external consultants to do this) i think he needs help from the squad in stepping up on match day, he needs help from the board in terms of verbal backing and leading the club through the current issues not just sitting back waiting to blame the manager. A simple thing would be to sort out Powells contract and not wait until he has mentally decided to leave on a free. I think he needs some help from experienced senior managers in terms of advice, guidance and mentoring. He is a new manager and it shows, he is getting frustrated with his players and is verbalising that outside of the dressing room (that never ends well), he hasn't even dealt with set pieces we look awful. A simple thing to show he sees what we see is to rotate his keepers, make them fight for the shirt. I remember when Warne did that the last time we went up and it helped us get a bag full of clean sheets from Vickers and then when Viktor got back in, he couldn't be knocked out of that shirt. We are struggling, the players are struggling and he is struggling, the club does need leadership on the pitch and in the boardroom to help our new manager.

You are spot on. A relegation would be a disaster. And there is my point, we cannot afford to allow this to continue. Bad form sets in and becomes a habit and when we lose the next home match, all of a sudden, things look even bleaker. It would be nice to pamper MH but we don?t have that sort of luxury. He?s got 4 league matches to turn this around or he has to go. And looking at those four fixtures, Stockport(H), Mansfield (A), Bradford (H) and Northampton (A), I find it hard to predict more than one point as it stands.

[Old_time_miller]

The table is a measure of success - the output of all the things MH has done including recruitment, training, tactics, etc etc. At the present time that measure is indicating none of these things have been done well. And, as far as I am concerned, there are no positive signs. So why should be get more time? He is risking the future of this club.

However, I will listen to what you have got to offer. What, in your opinion, has he done well? And what warrants his stay of execution?

You talk utter tripe.

[NorthWestCorner]

You talk utter tripe.

Great contribution

[ragingpup]

I think another relegation will be a disaster, it might not kill us as fans but it could kill the club. This is our centenary year for gods sake and we have fans thinking relegation is fine, I am gobsmacked..

Where did I say that relegation is fine? It's always disappointing and horrible, we've lived through it enough times haven't we? What I'm saying isn't hugely different from yourself, MH needs time and support and I said I'd be inclined to review at Christmas. That is a risk in that a lot of damage can be done in that time, but unlike NWC I can see periods of play where we seem to click and look like we're going in the right direction, but it isn't consistent. But rather than again climbing on the manager change carousel, we should do what we did with Moore and Warne who overcame rocky starts and allow time for injuries to subside and young players to gel.

But if it did backfire, and we end up relegated, what makes you think that it would be an extinction level event? 3 teams go down every year and generally don't fall out of existence. Stewart seems to plan fot worst case scenarios, hense we don't do stupid money, or at least don't gamble beyond our means. Seems a tad hysterical to call relegation anything other than very disappointing but part of the cycle of the life of a mid to lower level footy fan.

[Derbymiller]

"It may not work out of course, the injuries may continue, heads may drop further as the losing habit deepens and we may end up staying in the lower places. So be it, give the man time at least whilst there are some positive signs and even if we end up doing down, well, I've experienced that before, and you know what, it didn't kill me. "
In your original post above it reads as though you see relegation as an acceptable outcome of this season, if there are some positive signs. Now you might not have meant that, but that is how I read it.
I want to be clear I am not saying MH needs to be removed, I think that would be silly at this time, like you I think that Christmas is a better time to make a judgement, especially as any replacement has the January window to use. My point is I don't believe that he is getting the right support and help from within the club and i would like to see more examples of leadership from the executive management layer. Now you might not see that but that is supporting the manager!!
Why is it a disaster if we get relegated again? In my view that will be too much failure for TS and he will walk away and that will not be good for us, a club with debts, no assets and diminishing crowds could be something that we would struggle to sell to any new owners.

[ragingpup]

"It may not work out of course, the injuries may continue, heads may drop further as the losing habit deepens and we may end up staying in the lower places. So be it, give the man time at least whilst there are some positive signs and even if we end up doing down, well, I've experienced that before, and you know what, it didn't kill me. "
In your original post above it reads as though you see relegation as an acceptable outcome of this season, if there are some positive signs. Now you might not have meant that, but that is how I read it.
I want to be clear I am not saying MH needs to be removed, I think that would be silly at this time, like you I think that Christmas is a better time to make a judgement, especially as any replacement has the January window to use. My point is I don't believe that he is getting the right support and help from within the club and i would like to see more examples of leadership from the executive management layer. Now you might not see that but that is supporting the manager!!
Why is it a disaster if we get relegated again? In my view that will be too much failure for TS and he will walk away and that will not be good for us, a club with debts, no assets and diminishing crowds could be something that we would struggle to sell to any new owners.

I hear you - I'm not even saying that relegation is acceptable, I'm saying that it's an inevitable part of the life cycles of being one of the vast majority of footy clubs. You assemble your staff, you set your targets, all do their best, but circumstances happen, injuries, personal issues to key staff, key staff leave mid project, culture deteriates despite best efforts from leaders by definition not elite quality, and the law of gravity, where 3 teams have to go down can suck you under. It's happened before and it will happen again - just look at every club in all bar the elite of the premiership in an up and down graph over the last 50 years.

But in the hear and now, I agree with you that Hamshaw is new, needs support especially in how to get the best from a range of staff, and I agree that until Christmas is a fair review period. Yes, he has to be accountable, as do those around him. But above all, after the last 2 deadly seasons of no discernible Millers identity, I want to see a positive direction of travel over time.

Re: Stewart, yes I can see that but I don't particularly think that the risk of relegation is the be all and end all - I think he's inevitably going to move towards an end anyway due to his age, and staying up in 4th or 5th from the bottom wont make a huge difference. I would say it's an overarching risk anyway, but one shared by many, many other clubs also, the vast majority of which keep going beyond their current owners. I think I can trust Stewart to do right by the club when he moves on, whatever that might look like. Again, just my opinion.

[RU66]

Hamshaw says he's got a long-term plan. But players he's signed most are short-term without getting injured after a few games.

[SdnMiller]

I think what has been missed through some of the comments in this thread is probably the main issue at Rotherham at the moment, that is expectation.

Last year under evens we signed very well known, experienced, historically successful players on (reported) high wages, and constantly spouted to the media that we should be battling for promotion. This sets up the expectation of fans that we'll play high octane football and play teams of the park every week, which frankly didn't happen, hence the sacking.

On the other side hamshaw this season has repeatedly said that this year will be a rebuild, trying to move on the high earners that haven't seen success recently, brining in youth and potential instead of known quantities, using this year as a building block for the next season and future seasons after that.

For that reason the clubs position in the table I don't think is truly representative of how the manager is doing versus the previous manager. So far we've had some good halves of football but haven't translated that into full games which for me shows far more promise than we did last year

[RU66]

I think what has been missed through some of the comments in this thread is probably the main issue at Rotherham at the moment, that is expectation.

Last year under evens we signed very well known, experienced, historically successful players on (reported) high wages, and constantly spouted to the media that we should be battling for promotion. This sets up the expectation of fans that we'll play high octane football and play teams of the park every week, which frankly didn't happen, hence the sacking.

On the other side hamshaw this season has repeatedly said that this year will be a rebuild, trying to move on the high earners that haven't seen success recently, brining in youth and potential instead of known quantities, using this year as a building block for the next season and future seasons after that.

For that reason the clubs position in the table I don't think is truly representative of how the manager is doing versus the previous manager. So far we've had some good halves of football but haven't translated that into full games which for me shows far more promise than we did last year

Difference is we've lost Odoffin & Wilkes when he played up front got no one near the same level to replace them.

[Pocket rocket]

I think what has been missed through some of the comments in this thread is probably the main issue at Rotherham at the moment, that is expectation.

Last year under evens we signed very well known, experienced, historically successful players on (reported) high wages, and constantly spouted to the media that we should be battling for promotion. This sets up the expectation of fans that we'll play high octane football and play teams of the park every week, which frankly didn't happen, hence the sacking.

On the other side hamshaw this season has repeatedly said that this year will be a rebuild, trying to move on the high earners that haven't seen success recently, brining in youth and potential instead of known quantities, using this year as a building block for the next season and future seasons after that.

For that reason the clubs position in the table I don't think is truly representative of how the manager is doing versus the previous manager. So far we've had some good halves of football but haven't translated that into full games which for me shows far more promise than we did last year

Stop talking sense. 👍

[Tigerish]

All these words! We just need an inspirational manager, which is exactly what we don't have. I think A Revell fits the bill

[Timbertop]

But would he want to work for Mr Stewart ?

[pipppy]

Why would he want to leave Stevenage when they are doing so well?

[Beaufighter]

Why would he want to leave Stevenage when they are doing so well?

Especially when you consider how doing exactly that worked out for Evans.

[Beaufighter]

I’m with sdn on this one. It’s more than a little bit irritating on here to see fans metaphorically throwing their hands in the air in astonishment that we aren’t the all conquering “too good for League One” side we used to be, despite the fact that Hamshaw has said all along how it was going to be and what he is trying to do.

Bringing in young, athletic players and rebuilding the side completely is exactly what we needed to do, and all the way through the summer everyone seemed to agree, often loudly wondering where these new young players were when we weren’t signing anyone. Then we started the season, looking exactly like what we are, and suddenly ‘transition’ has become a dirty word, a tired excuse, even before the end of September! Im not sure some people understand what transition means. Neither am I happy to see us fold like we are doing, I don’t think everything is fine, but I do think we need to be the other side of Christmas before we start to wonder if the plan isn’t working.