OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

I moved to the Netherlands in 1984. The first 18 months I paid UK Tax. Without actually doing anything to make it happen, there followed a 12 month period in which the UK believed I was paying NL tax and vice versa. I didn't complain. I then took on a new role, this time with a Dutch firm and have been paying NL tax ever since.

I was disenfranchised in 1999, having lived outside the UK for 15 years. As far as I know, that is still the case. You could vote in your old constituency during those 15 years. During the first couple of years I was here, there were no General Elections so there was nothing to vote on. When the 1987 election arrived, I was paying NL tax, not UK. I disenfranchised myself as I was, and still am, of the opinion that if you're not paying the membership fee (aka Tax) you shouldn't vote. I kept up that stance until my automatic disenfranchisement in '99, having been away 15 years.

So, should UK taxpaying foreign nationals be allowed to vote in the UK? It's a solid YES from me.

Should UK nationals who live abroad and pay no UK Tax be allowed to vote in the UK? It's a solid NO from me.

Not a left or right political choice, just something I believe and have applied to myself.

That’s a sensible approach and one I think I would have taken if we’d moved to Spain. Not sure it’s one most British ex pats would want to take though judging by those I know in Mallorca.

[swaledale]

Brexit really ****ing things up for both rock, pop and classical musicians who used to tour Europe. I mean in fairness its the nature of the lousy deal that Johnson and Frosty negotiated, but the 90 day rule is also preventing support crews, technicians etc touring, the cost of visas is astronomical its really cocking up matters for the average band or singer who used to make a good proportion of their income touring europe.

So we have higher inflation than the EU, this mythical high wage high skill economy is apparently inflationary!! Increased migration from outside the EU, a crisis on the asylum issue because we are not processing applications quickly AND haven't a return agreement with the EU, which we had previously. A restriction on UK people living and working abroad. Reduced investment, increased costs on imports and especially food, which will rise when full inspections introduced. A restriction on exports.

I'd say its a complete disaster just as so called "project fear" predicted, still we have funny black passports so that's fine.

[Andy_Faber]

Brexit really ****ing things up for both rock, pop and classical musicians who used to tour Europe. I mean in fairness its the nature of the lousy deal that Johnson and Frosty negotiated, but the 90 day rule is also preventing support crews, technicians etc touring, the cost of visas is astronomical its really cocking up matters for the average band or singer who used to make a good proportion of their income touring europe.
.

Where do you get this **** from? Yes there's an increased cost and admin, but its only a big issue in the minds of those who want it to be, I could fill this thread with evidence of UK bands happily and frequently travelling to EU countries and vice versa (but I won't because I know evidence, to steal a lefty phrase, 'triggers' you). Anecdotally (again,calm down) musos I've spoken to continue to find channel-hopping ventures (both ways) profitable because there's still an aura around fans attending gigs by 'foreign' acts so they can attract bigger fees.

[swaledale]

Where do you get this **** from? Yes there's an increased cost and admin, but its only a big issue in the minds of those who want it to be, I could fill this thread with evidence of UK bands happily and frequently travelling to EU countries and vice versa (but I won't because I know evidence, to steal a lefty phrase, 'triggers' you). Anecdotally (again,calm down) musos I've spoken to continue to find channel-hopping ventures (both ways) profitable because there's still an aura around fans attending gigs by 'foreign' acts so they can attract bigger fees.

So I guess Elton John knows a wee bit more about the music industry than you do and has said publicly and been lobbying government to get revised agreements with the EU?

Lets look at the details as told to me by a guy who manages a less well known band.

£1,500 for customs passes or carnets for each lorry, the carnet must account for every items of a bands equipment. Even then there can be.

Some countries require employment passes for band members.

British musicians, crew members and technicians can not spend more than 90 days in the last 180 days in the EU.

A band that takes it own vehicle from a third country like the Uk can only make3 stops in the EU before returning to the UK - one can of course hire and EU vehicle which is more expensive.

Merchandise, no profit if brought from UK, can be sourced in EU, but again an increase in the cost and buggeration factor

Note I didn't say it was impossible, just complicated, difficult and much more costly with additional paperwork and as result many bands aren't bothering becuase it isn't worth the effort.

Orchestras have a big problem as well, the additional paperwork and costs are threatening the viability of tours.

Whilst the guy who runs KB events and runs a fleet of lorries who used to do many of these tours, has had to set up a subsidiary in Dublin in order to continue to work without additional hassle. he quotes extra costs of £750,000.

So who do I believe, you who thinks there isn't an issue based on anecdotal evidence, or the people in the industry that says there is? Oh and even arch Brexiteer "Lord" Frost seems to think there needs to be some revising of the regulations to cut the costs and make thins easier.

The point being made here, which seems to be waived aside as if it isn't an issue, is that Brexit and the way in which the leaving agreement with the EU was badly negotiated has resulted in significant extra costs, extra paperwork and restrictions on business, on travel on importing and exporting goods etc. that weren't there before.

This has impacted negatively on people's livelihoods, such that many ahve dropped the business they were in, or find it uneconomic and too time consuming to continue working or trading within the EU.

None of that is *******s as you so eloquently put it.

It also impacts on EU bands who need additional paperwork

[swaledale]

Oh and google UKmusic who certainly seem to think there is a problem!!

[MadAmster]

I'm safe from all this as, since Covid, there's been no requests for my services in the UK, whereas pre Covid, I was just starting to get requests to do sets from various sources, both north and south.

[SithHappens]

In Greece at the moment and thought the other day I'd put the F1 on as have a Now Tv subscription and always been able to watch on holiday. Bit annoyed no longer works because of, oh guess what...

Hardly life changing I know and pretty insignificant but still one more tick on the list of things that are worse since brexit while the benefits list remains blank.

[Andy_Faber]

many bands aren't bothering becuase it isn't worth the effort.

Such as?

[SithHappens]

Such as?

Black Lace

[Andy_Faber]

Black Lace

Checkmate. I'm beaten

[ramAnag]

Seems to be a great deal of coverage on t’internet from sources such as NME (who know a thing or two about musicians), The Guardian, The i, Sky and musicians themselves...from Elton John to White Lies, all backing up what Swale suggests. Just saying.

[Andy_Faber]

Seems to be a great deal of coverage on t’internet from sources such as NME (who know a thing or two about musicians), The Guardian, The i, Sky and musicians themselves...from Elton John to White Lies, all backing up what Swale suggests. Just saying.

As ever rA I'm not disagreeing there's extra work and cost, just offering my possibly more'on the ground' knowledge and recent experience to suggest that both UK and EU musicians have shrugged their shoulders and got on with it. The promoters I speak to say bands are still deperate for overseas work. There is a slight nuance here of course that musicians (certainly at the club level) are used to getting paid peanuts for their efforts anyway, they are soin love with what they do, so getting (net) less peanuts isn't a big deal.

[swaledale]

Checkmate. I'm beaten

In the spirit of playing the ball not the man I acknowledge your post and also that in the main you were talking about bands at a semi pro level.

[Andy_Faber]

In the spirit of playing the ball not the man I acknowledge your post and also that in the main you were talking about bands at a semi pro level.

Splitting hairs I’d say non-premier league bands but in essence yes correct.

[MadAmster]

In Greece at the moment and thought the other day I'd put the F1 on as have a Now Tv subscription and always been able to watch on holiday. Bit annoyed no longer works because of, oh guess what...

Hardly life changing I know and pretty insignificant but still one more tick on the list of things that are worse since brexit while the benefits list remains blank.

Use a VPN.