OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Not sure why anyone would be 'frightened' to say things nowadays Angry. 'Political Correctness' is virtually dead and that's ultimately probably for the best imo. There are still things that are just 'wrong' though. For instance, I disagree with the Brexiteers but although I think I'm right and they're wrong I don't know or assume that to be the case and recognise that there's a debate to be had. Same with the issue of 'immigration'. Where racism is concerned however...where people are judging others essentially because of the colour of their skin or their religious background that remains surely wrong. We don't need the 'thought police' to tell us that but neither do we need a political party which has been born out of objection to people of different colours and creeds. Let UKIP stand by all means but hopefully people will soon realise that they are a party based on divisiveness with their roots in a past which no longer exists, and vote (or not) accordingly.

Love to see the Liberals back. Clegg may have been a 'mealy mouthed' so and so but I had a lot of time for some of them (Vince Cable in particular) in the coalition government while the prospect of Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary fills me with dread.

The Liberals?
Cable the man who enforced censorship -
Universities will ban feminists, Right-wing politicians and other controversial speakers to appear fair on Muslims, Vince Cable has warned.
Changing the government's position on the Chagos Islanders, and then walking back his comments, calling it an "administrative error"
Calling bankers "spivs and gamblers"
"If we all abstain then that is the position I am happy to go along with. There is an option that we all abstain together and we are considering that" – he considered abstaining on his own department's policy
“I can walk out of the government and bring the government down”, he boasted to two Telegraph journalists secretly recording a constituency surgery, when talking about his role in the BSkyB negotiations
Making strange jokes about bankers being run over
Calling David Cameron's immigration speech "very unwise"
Saying Mr Cameron only became party leader because of "AV" (not true)
Telling the BBC that the Lib Dems had "restrained" the Tories from making "offensive" policy decisions for Scotland
"That's why I'm glad the Tories aren't in power by themselves at Westminster. We have stopped the Tories behaving like they did under Thatcher" – remarks dropped from a speech made in Edinburgh last night
Admitting he thought about leaving office over his previous BSkyB gaffe
“If I find myself outside the Government, I can assure you there are all kinds of things I can do with my life. I can have much fun going around the country speaking, writing books and probably doubling my income in the process" – implying he might prefer to be sacked from Cabinet rather than stay in it.

Nick Clegg the liar
His finest moments

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/nick-clegg-liberal-democrats-disaster-coalition

Good entertainment though :-)

[Andy_Faber]

Where racism is concerned however...where people are judging others essentially because of the colour of their skin or their religious background that remains surely wrong.

I think the majority of the public are now way more sophisticated in their prejudices than skin colour, but I don't think its racist to judge/assess how you want to interact with people by what you know about their 'type' (and 'type' could include profession, age, gender etc etc as well as the usual things) in general.

[mistaram]

Tricky you forgot about Vince's great handling of the Royal mail sell off or should it be rip off Must have done a good job got him a knighthood

[ramAnag]

I think the majority of the public are now way more sophisticated in their prejudices than skin colour, but I don't think its racist to judge/assess how you want to interact with people by what you know about their 'type' (and 'type' could include profession, age, gender etc etc as well as the usual things) in general.

The 'majority of the public' always have been 'more sophisticated', Andy...the majority of UKIP voters though...I suspect not.
Not sure about your other point about judging 'how you want to interact with others' as it's clearly never been 'racist' to make such decisions on the basis of the criteria you suggest.

[ramAnag]

Strange jokes about bankers being run over Tricky? You mean...

'What's the difference between a dead cat on the road and a dead banker on the road?'
'There were skid marks near the cat!'

Can't hold that against him, that was funny in the context of the time wasn't it?

[Trickytreesreds]

Strange jokes about bankers being run over Tricky? You mean...

'What's the difference between a dead cat on the road and a dead banker on the road?'
'There were skid marks near the cat!'

Can't hold that against him, that was funny in the context of the time wasn't it?

Sorry ram, the mans a cock and so full of himself. I observed him on many a debate., He doesn't like other peoples opinions and it costs him
The Royal Mail sell off is a classic example of this buffoons inadequacies,
He never apologised or admitted he got it wrong either. Maybe he got a slice?

[swaledale]

And there is the Remain campaign's problem in one sentence. "You're stupid, now we're doomed". Why can't you respect that others have made a decision that differs from yours without resorting to calling them misguided?

It isn't remains problem in a sentence its an accurate observation of the sample of people who voted Brexit who clearly did not have a ****ing clue why they voted that way and how it would benefit them! Not one could come up with a coherent reason for the way they voted and the reality is that not one of them will see their lives change for the better because of how they voted - thats why i call them misguided debate has been reasonable, in truth there are millions out there who voted Brexit due to belieing the lies about millions going to the NHS or that those eastern europeans who somehow stole their jobs are going to be disappearing anytime soon!

I respect peoples decision when it been made with at least half an idea as to why they made it, when they clearly don't what is there to respect?

[AdiSalisbury]

It isn't remains problem in a sentence its an accurate observation of the sample of people who voted Brexit who clearly did not have a ****ing clue why they voted that way and how it would benefit them! Not one could come up with a coherent reason for the way they voted and the reality is that not one of them will see their lives change for the better because of how they voted - thats why i call them misguided debate has been reasonable, in truth there are millions out there who voted Brexit due to belieing the lies about millions going to the NHS or that those eastern europeans who somehow stole their jobs are going to be disappearing anytime soon!

I respect peoples decision when it been made with at least half an idea as to why they made it, when they clearly don't what is there to respect?

Your response is arrogant and ignorant beyond belief. The only person listening to the lies, to support your own misguided feeling of superiority, is you.

There are people from both sides of the vote on this thread, putting forward thought out arguments, but respecting each others position. You are so closed minded you can't hear anything but what you want to hear, with no consideration of anything beyond you're opinion.

But perhaps, you are in the know, as you so often make yourself out to be?

You, are exactly what you, are describing.

[roger_ramjet]

Wheres the like button gone @Adi

[Gaspode]

Wheres the like button gone @Adi

+1

[AngryRam]

+2

[ramAnag]

Tbf, I don't suppose for a minute that Swale is suggesting that all Brexiteers are ignorant of the situation but is it not the case that a 'proportion' voted with little or no understanding? Those who voted believing the '£350m lie', those who voted because they were influenced by Farage's irrelevant racist poster, those who voted prior to seeing it as an excuse to abuse 'foreigners' and those who voted believing that leaving the EU would magically end immigration and make them all better off are gullible at best and probably ignorant and prejudiced at worst. There are, as Adi suggests, 'people on both sides putting forward thought out arguments' but, as Swale also says, when voters appear clueless or prejudiced there isn't much left to respect.

[macstheman]

Yes, but that applies to both the Brexiters and the remains. 2 of my family, who I love very much, voted like me to remain but admitted that their reason was that they've only known being in the E U and don't really understand what the other option was!! Now, I am sure that many remains never looked deeply into how Brexit would (or would not) work but merely voted for the status quo 'per se'. So, I would suggest that a significant number voted either way without a great deal of deep knowledge of the pros and cons. Let's face it at a General Election huge numbers vote for a party saying 'I always vote that way because blah blah'. It's just the way it is!! Democracy in Action!!

[AngryRam]

Tbf, I don't suppose for a minute that Swale is suggesting that all Brexiteers are ignorant of the situation but is it not the case that a 'proportion' voted with little or no understanding? Those who voted believing the '£350m lie', those who voted because they were influenced by Farage's irrelevant racist poster, those who voted prior to seeing it as an excuse to abuse 'foreigners' and those who voted believing that leaving the EU would magically end immigration and make them all better off are gullible at best and probably ignorant and prejudiced at worst. There are, as Adi suggests, 'people on both sides putting forward thought out arguments' but, as Swale also says, when voters appear clueless or prejudiced there isn't much left to respect.

You are correct.. I did not initially respond to Swaleys post as it angered me to a degree.. His post is maybe not read as it was intended but there is no doubt that he infers some people who voted to leave are think and remainers have the moral high ground. What about the people who voted to stay without understanding what the hell was going on. There is a general feeling that is gernerated by the remainers that they are superior in some way and Swaley just loaded the gun again. Adi was correct in his response imo.

[ramAnag]

Not having 'deep knowledge' is understandable and forgiveable mac, and, as you say, is probably the case at most General Elections. It is also, imo, a reason why the whole concept of having a referendum, on all but the simplest of issues, is so deeply flawed.
Voting when the prime motivation is prejudice or when the voter displays an alarming level of ignorance is not so forgiveable. Personally I accept - as I'm sure Swale does - that there are two sides to the argument and that it is unlikely that all 'Remainers' displayed a 'deep knowledge'...I do doubt however that any 'Remainers' were motivated by 'racism' and 'prejudice'. To return to the pre-referendum line...there is no suggestion that all Brexiteers are racist, but there can be little doubt that all racists will be Brexiteers. Events prior to and since the referendum have done little to dispel that theory imo.