OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[DCFCArmy]

When I said take care of our own lives we rid ourselves of government entirely, no more voting bs, no more fake democracy, have a frigging dictator instead, we deal with our own education ie pay for it ourselves if we wish, dentist doctors etc we pay on the door, no more bs "NI", no more tax either because of it.

A dictator is the best way to go, if you want to challenge the dictator you challenge him, probably get killed in doing so but you might win you never know.

When I want a bottle of whiskey from the shop I go and buy it?!?!... same goes for everything else surely??

[mistaram]

Dcfc. I think you bought that whiskey and drank it before you posted By the way one way ticket to Moscow from Heathrow now only £145 Just a warning though you will not be posting things over there that you can here

[ramAnag]

I don't actually want to be run by 'Belgian based civil servants' as I think you know Rog. I want less bureaucracy but not at the cost of a fractured and disunited Europe which is what appears to be happening and seems to me to be far too high a price to pay for retaining the 'sovereignty' of Parliament which those who voted for Brexit curiously decided they didn't want after all when the High Court decision was announced last week.
For once I understand (almost) DCFCA's point about the effectiveness of dictatorship. Little doubt that Enlightened Despotism is the most efficient and effective form of government...the problem of course is that power invariably corrupts, so how can you guarantee the 'Enlightened' bit?

[mistaram]

Roger ( snouts in the trough ) Just reading what the government have done for Boris to hold is Brexit talks with European ministers They have hired The Cheving Estate as lavish grace and favour country estate in Kent with 115 rooms set in 3,500 acres Wonder what the bedroom tax on that would be

[ramAnag]

Roger ( snouts in the trough ) Just reading what the government have done for Boris to hold is Brexit talks with European ministers They have hired The Cheving Estate as lavish grace and favour country estate in Kent with 115 rooms set in 3,500 acres Wonder what the bedroom tax on that would be

Bit rude to Roger calling him 'snouts in the trough' mista, he's alright really

Think you mean Chevening House...apparently it's a perk of the job of Foreign Secretary being able to host friends and foreign dignitaries there. There's a problem this time though. It's also meant to be used by Liam Fox and David Davis...a sort of Brexiteers booking.com...but sharing doesn't seem to be their strongpoint and the trustees won't provide access until the poor loves can agree.

[Trickytreesreds]

I'll say it again.
Why are we clinging to EU shirt tails, over something no one agreed to?
The "common market" was what was agreed in the vote in 1974, no tariffs and free trade.

No one and I mean NO ONE, voted for a political union and a drive for closer integration of a super state.
Why does free trade have to come with the conditions of committing to a Political Union?

It was never wanted and I'll say it again.
YOU WAS CONNED!!! I'm sick of folks talking of the leave campaign conning people. You have been conned for over 40 years and seem to accept it as the norm?

There is nothing to stop Europe having free trade without all this bull****.
Think about it.

[ramAnag]

Political Union of some sort was always implied by the formation of the Common Market and the vote of 1974 Tricky. The notion that the 'leading' countries of Western Europe would be bonded together by commercial union and thus less likely to start having a go at each other, as they had done on two separate occasions in the first half of the twentieth century, was fairly fundamental at the time.
I'll accept that the level of bureaucracy has grown beyond what was anticipated but I'm not sure that equates to being 'conned'. How many things that were voted on over forty years ago have remained predictable over all those years? Things change...not normally quite as quickly as Boris and Co. distancing themselves from the Brexit promises about the NHS though...that took all of half a day as I recall.

[DCFCArmy]

I'll say it again.
Why are we clinging to EU shirt tails, over something no one agreed to?
The "common market" was what was agreed in the vote in 1974, no tariffs and free trade.

No one and I mean NO ONE, voted for a political union and a drive for closer integration of a super state.
Why does free trade have to come with the conditions of committing to a Political Union?

It was never wanted and I'll say it again.
YOU WAS CONNED!!! I'm sick of folks talking of the leave campaign conning people. You have been conned for over 40 years and seem to accept it as the norm?

There is nothing to stop Europe having free trade without all this bull****.
Think about it.

People were conned into globalisation simple as that.. and I love the "their pushing globalisation"... "globalisation" has been here since the end of WW2.. they've been going in invading countries since WW2 to get banking systems set up, we've been in a full blown globalisation since the 70s, the last pockets of resistance are being taken out right now.. soon they'll bringing in digital currency (one world currency) and the microchip... and the youth of today will buy into it and it'll become the norm.. the old will be left to die off.. the rest of us who hate the f****** thing will have to s*ck it up and get on with it. either that or burrow under ground or something.

[DCFCArmy]

The old saying.. "the sheep will always follow what's trending".. and the trend and the in thing will be to get chipped like a dog and all live within a one world currency.. the one's who despise it and question (for good f****** reason I might add) will be mocked by the "conspiracy theory police"... its only the minority who see what a lie it is, the majority don't see it and can't see it.

[ramAnag]

Ah yes...that 'old saying'...almost as old as the one about 'empty vessels making the most noise'.

[swaledale]

So you would rather be governed by Sir Humphrey rather than Jim Hacker??

There is however a germ of an idea here, in that civil servants MAY be less inclined to burying their snouts in the trough than the transient elected representatives that oversee them. Problem is, how do you monitor the civil servants if they effectively appoint each other with no independent supervision.

Mind you, manGara and Swale would love it as they clearly want to be run by Belgian-based civil servants anyway! As for me I will settle for their beer and chocolates but not their stewardship.

Mm thats a sweeping statement based on no discernable evidence! For one we aren't "run" by belgian based civil servants whist a member of the EU - though the Uk unique (except maybe Germany) amongst members of the Eu does love enforcing EU law ad regulations to their very letter, something the French and Italians, Spanish and many others take a much more liberal interpretation of them!! Then the Uk government has taken evry opportunity to blame the Eu for something which actually was within their power to do something about - just one example is the Blair government not taking up the option on a 7 year pause for eastern europeans having free movement after the countries joined (although one could argue thats why our economy has not had such a nasty jolt as others in the EU because of that).

Anyway its a moot point because the reality is that far from securing some deal which will give the Leave what they want, we will continue to use european laws, because there is no way of replacing them within the next 20 odd years and if we want to sell goods to the Eu we will ahve to comply with certain laws and regulations, plus as we will have to remain in the customs union, the scope for outside trade deals will be limited, so maybe in say 30 years things will be different, bit too late for those old squares who want to put time back to what they are comfortable with!

[swaledale]

I'll say it again.
Why are we clinging to EU shirt tails, over something no one agreed to?
The "common market" was what was agreed in the vote in 1974, no tariffs and free trade.

No one and I mean NO ONE, voted for a political union and a drive for closer integration of a super state.
Why does free trade have to come with the conditions of committing to a Political Union?

It was never wanted and I'll say it again.
YOU WAS CONNED!!! I'm sick of folks talking of the leave campaign conning people. You have been conned for over 40 years and seem to accept it as the norm?

There is nothing to stop Europe having free trade without all this bull****.
Think about it.

YOU may have bee conned, some of us certainly werent and I very much doubt that the majority of those voted leave understand it one way or the other and hence were incapable of a reasoned judgement, I've heard very few reasons for voting leave that are backed up by verifiable facts and you certainly haven't put forward anything other than incoherent bull****!

[FrenchTrimmed]

mm thats a sweeping statement based on no discernable evidence! For one we aren't "run" by belgian based civil servants whist a member of the eu - though the uk unique (except maybe germany) amongst members of the eu does love enforcing eu law ad regulations to their very letter, something the french and italians, spanish and many others take a much more liberal interpretation of them!! Then the uk government has taken evry opportunity to blame the eu for something which actually was within their power to do something about - just one example is the blair government not taking up the option on a 7 year pause for eastern europeans having free movement after the countries joined (although one could argue thats why our economy has not had such a nasty jolt as others in the eu because of that).

Anyway its a moot point because the reality is that far from securing some deal which will give the leave what they want, we will continue to use european laws, because there is no way of replacing them within the next 20 odd years and if we want to sell goods to the eu we will ahve to comply with certain laws and regulations, plus as we will have to remain in the customs union, the scope for outside trade deals will be limited, so maybe in say 30 years things will be different, bit too late for those old squares who want to put time back to what they are comfortable with!

like :d

[Trickytreesreds]

YOU may have bee conned, some of us certainly werent and I very much doubt that the majority of those voted leave understand it one way or the other and hence were incapable of a reasoned judgement, I've heard very few reasons for voting leave that are backed up by verifiable facts and you certainly haven't put forward anything other than incoherent bull****!

Try the recent Dutch referendum ignored.
It is what this corrupt non elected empire is all about.

You may be a blind fool, but plenty of us were not.

[ramAnag]

'You may be a blind fool...' something about pot, kettle and black springs to mind.