OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[roger_ramjet]

Maybe it's symptomatic of the nation as a whole Andy. For the main part this debate, which is now six months old, has been relatively civilised and constructive but there are a handful of contributors - all of them actually on the Brexit side - who have been downright personal and unpleasant. To call Swale a 'keyboard bully' is ridiculous and although he may fall on the incendiary side of 'fighting fire with fire' it's not usually without good cause. This thread has provoked considerable debate and revealed enormous division. Such division is, I'd suggest, a reflection of the mood in the country as a whole which is hardly surprising seeing as the nation is currently being driven down a route which, regardless of polling day percentages, at least half the country opposes.

Please dont try to defend the indefensible Mangara. In the good old days of a moderated board Swale would have been carded for those personal insults.

This thread has teetered along the edge of the unnacceptable but Swale has pushed it over the edge: not so much by his assault on Tricky who many might suggest deserves it but the attack on mistaram was unwarranted and not on.

If any mods do read this perhaps they coul act?

[Andy_Faber]

Please dont try to defend the indefensible Mangara. In the good old days of a moderated board Swale would have been carded for those personal insults.

This thread has teetered along the edge of the unnacceptable but Swale has pushed it over the edge: not so much by his assault on Tricky who many might suggest deserves it but the attack on mistaram was unwarranted and not on.

If any mods do read this perhaps they coul act?

No doubt Rattea will come along and do something like ban you....

Hopefully though, Swale will have calmed down, I actually enjoy the debate when the insults are kept to reasonable level

[Ram59]

Maybe it's symptomatic of the nation as a whole Andy. For the main part this debate, which is now six months old, has been relatively civilised and constructive but there are a handful of contributors - all of them actually on the Brexit side - who have been downright personal and unpleasant. To call Swale a 'keyboard bully' is ridiculous and although he may fall on the incendiary side of 'fighting fire with fire' it's not usually without good cause. This thread has provoked considerable debate and revealed enormous division. Such division is, I'd suggest, a reflection of the mood in the country as a whole which is hardly surprising seeing as the nation is currently being driven down a route which, regardless of polling day percentages, at least half the country opposes.

I suppose you calling me xenophobic without any justification was not unpleasant or personal.

[Andy_Faber]

I suppose you calling me xenophobic without any justification was not unpleasant or personal.

Agreeing with Ram59 its all got a bit daft, and the 'xenophobe'/'racist' slur is just too easy to sling IMO

Ironically, I think part of the root cause of the divisions in UK (and elsewhere) at present is because of the exact opposite character trait, that of 'xenofile', defined as someone with an irrational love of foreigners (xenophobe is an irrational hate). Lilly Allen syndrome, if you will.

[Ram59]

Agreeing with Ram59 its all got a bit daft, and the 'xenophobe'/'racist' slur is just too easy to sling IMO

Ironically, I think part of the root cause of the divisions in UK (and elsewhere) at present is because of the exact opposite character trait, that of 'xenofile', defined as someone with an irrational love of foreigners (xenophobe is an irrational hate). Lilly Allen syndrome, if you will.

Or could it be a tendency to become 'anglophobic', an irrational hatred of any thing British?

[ramAnag]

I suppose you calling me xenophobic without any justification was not unpleasant or personal.

Blimey...you don't forget do you? I'm sorry if that hurt so much. At the time you seemed to be associating all foreigners/immigrants with negative traits. I thought, in the context of the, at the time, recent referendum result that you were displaying xenophobic tendencies. Since then, although we often differ, I have - for what it's worth - come to recognise you as one of the more reasonable and rational Brexiteers although the post immediately above is just daft.
The same cannot be said of everyone. Tricky for instance regularly resorts to abuse and seems to delight in the prospect of Europe in ruinous flames. That, to me and others, is unacceptable. He regularly launches into aggressive attacks on Swale and on this occasion he was - disappointingly imo - joined by mista and woolwacker.
It's not my business to defend Swale, he's more than capable of managing that himself, but although I accept there has been juvenile name calling on both sides the real nastiness, from Remainers being told to 'leave if you don't like it' to Asians and Eastern Europeans being taunted and attacked in the aftermath of the vote right through to the treatment of Gina Miller, murder of Jo Cox and threats of 'civil war' has come from the Right. Compared to all that any harsh words from Swale really do pale into insignificance.

[Ram59]

Or could it be a tendency to become 'anglophobic', an irrational hatred of any thing British?

Anglophobic'should refer to the English, before any you correct me.

[Ram59]

Blimey...you don't forget do you? I'm sorry if that hurt so much. At the time you seemed to be associating all foreigners/immigrants with negative traits. I thought, in the context of the, at the time, recent referendum result that you were displaying xenophobic tendencies. Since then, although we often differ, I have - for what it's worth - come to recognise you as one of the more reasonable and rational Brexiteers although the post immediately above is just daft.
The same cannot be said of everyone. Tricky for instance regularly resorts to abuse and seems to delight in the prospect of Europe in ruinous flames. That, to me and others, is unacceptable. He regularly launches into aggressive attacks on Swale and on this occasion he was - disappointingly imo - joined by mista and woolwacker.
It's not my business to defend Swale, he's more than capable of managing that himself, but although I accept there has been juvenile name calling on both sides the real nastiness, from Remainers being told to 'leave if you don't like it' to Asians and Eastern Europeans being taunted and attacked in the aftermath of the vote right through to the treatment of Gina Miller, murder of Jo Cox and threats of 'civil war' has come from the Right. Compared to all that any harsh words from Swale really do pale into insignificance.

I was picking you up on your post anag, you wasn't referring to other horrible incidents, you clearly stated that on this discussion between our posters, that it was only the brexiteers that were hurling the insults, when you and swale have given at least as good as you've received.

[ramAnag]

I was picking you up on your post anag, you wasn't referring to other horrible incidents, you clearly stated that on this discussion between our posters, that it was only the brexiteers that were hurling the insults, when you and swale have given at least as good as you've received.

Swale has his own style Ram59...mine is a little more reserved. Without trawling through, which I've got no time to do, I think the only insults I've hurled were calling Tricky a 'prat' and you a 'xenophobe' on the basis of you originally associating migrants with rapists, criminals and something about *****philes from Europe being more free to pursue their aims here than in the U.S. because of their stricter border controls.
I may have overreacted and misinterpreted what you said or, on the basis of how you put things, it may not have been entirely without some foundation. Since then I accept that you've made a lot more sense, with the exception of today's Anglophobe comment which unfortunately sums up the Brexiteer attitude...'all those in favour of Brexit are pro Britain/England and all those nasty 'Remainers' are some sort of treacherous liberal/lefties. That is total twaddle, it is precisely because I do care what happens to my country that I am in favour of a strong, united and unisolated Britain playing it's part in a strong and unified Europe.
My observation about the 'nastiness' stemming from the Right was in direct relation to my comment about any unpleasantness on here mirroring the state of the nation as a whole where there can be little, if any, doubt that the vast majority of examples of unacceptable, intolerant and threatening behaviour have come from the more extreme end of those supporting the Brexit campaign.

[AdiSalisbury]

there can be little, if any, doubt that the vast majority of examples of unacceptable, intolerant and threatening behaviour have come from the more extreme end of those supporting the Brexit campaign.

You should read my FB feed, it's the complete opposite to your assumptions.

[Ram59]

Swale has his own style Ram59...mine is a little more reserved. Without trawling through, which I've got no time to do, I think the only insults I've hurled were calling Tricky a 'prat' and you a 'xenophobe' on the basis of you originally associating migrants with rapists, criminals and something about *****philes from Europe being more free to pursue their aims here than in the U.S. because of their stricter border controls.
I may have overreacted and misinterpreted what you said or, on the basis of how you put things, it may not have been entirely without some foundation. Since then I accept that you've made a lot more sense, with the exception of today's Anglophobe comment which unfortunately sums up the Brexiteer attitude...'all those in favour of Brexit are pro Britain/England and all those nasty 'Remainers' are some sort of treacherous liberal/lefties. That is total twaddle, it is precisely because I do care what happens to my country that I am in favour of a strong, united and unisolated Britain playing it's part in a strong and unified Europe.
My observation about the 'nastiness' stemming from the Right was in direct relation to my comment about any unpleasantness on here mirroring the state of the nation as a whole where there can be little, if any, doubt that the vast majority of examples of unacceptable, intolerant and threatening behaviour have come from the more extreme end of those supporting the Brexit campaign.

The anglophobic 'comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

[ramAnag]

Adi...what 'assumptions'?

Ram59...but only 'a bit'.

[AdiSalisbury]

This assumption, "that the vast majority of examples of unacceptable, intolerant and threatening behaviour have come from the more extreme end of those supporting the Brexit campaign."

There are extremist arseholes on both sides of the vote, and personally I've seen far more unpleasantness from the remain side.

[ramAnag]

This assumption, "that the vast majority of examples of unacceptable, intolerant and threatening behaviour have come from the more extreme end of those supporting the Brexit campaign."

There are extremist arseholes on both sides of the vote, and personally I've seen far more unpleasantness from the remain side.

Really? I'm surprised. It wasn't really an assumption. There is evidence to suggest that our society has become more openly racist and less tolerant since the referendum result. I accept that both sides lied and your point about extremists but I genuinely haven't heard of any Asians or Poles attacking 'Brexiteers', of any Brexit supporting MP's being killed or campaigners made afraid to leave their homes and I certainly don't recall telling anyone to 'p*** off out of the country' for voting Brexit.

[Andy_Faber]

This assumption, "that the vast majority of examples of unacceptable, intolerant and threatening behaviour have come from the more extreme end of those supporting the Brexit campaign."

There are extremist arseholes on both sides of the vote, and personally I've seen far more unpleasantness from the remain side.

I've seen it in equal measure, but the difference on my fb feed continues to be that Remainers seem to think they have the moral high ground, and don't need to even put forward an argument - 'I'm right, you're wrong, you're thick, you're a racist' is the usual tirade. A few of these people I have admired in the past, including a fairly famous musician and a legendary journalist, and they just come over as bitter, disdainful people.

I don't think the adversarial way of working these things through has worked at all on this subject, and the population should have been force-fed independantly obtained factual information to base their decsions on, instead of the lies and mudslinging we got.