OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh no not you again, what the BBC says something you agree with? Quelle surprise! if you let your addled brain think you'd know that nobody thinks the EU is perfect, but then what is?

The problem with your agenda is that it leads nowhere and your wish for anarchy in europe will benefit the elites and **** you and your kind royally!

More insults, yet the wittering of someone, who'd have had a commission in the SS.
You amuse the **** out of me Swale.
Yes the BBC is a renowned propaganda machine of the EU, yet broadcasts a programme, ramming down everyone's throat the failing white elephant. I was shocked to see this I admit, but maybe just maybe. The wind has changed.
Have you watched it and was there any lies in there, from the way the EU treats the likes of the Greeks, to the way the Germans, reap everything in?

You may be obsessed with being part of it Swale, but many of us are not.
The way things are going, it could all be tits up, before we even leave anyway. Who would you suck off then?

[Trickytreesreds]

What is a bhuna?

It's British spirituality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huna_(New_Age)

[swaledale]

More insults, yet the wittering of someone, who'd have had a commission in the SS.
You amuse the **** out of me Swale.
Yes the BBC is a renowned propaganda machine of the EU, yet broadcasts a programme, ramming down everyone's throat the failing white elephant. I was shocked to see this I admit, but maybe just maybe. The wind has changed.
Have you watched it and was there any lies in there, from the way the EU treats the likes of the Greeks, to the way the Germans, reap everything in?

You may be obsessed with being part of it Swale, but many of us are not.
The way things are going, it could all be tits up, before we even leave anyway. Who would you suck off then?

What utter *******s you spout - the BBC may well be a liberal organisation, thank the **** for that but it hardly spouts propoganda, unless of course your a dimwit like yourself who believes the what is reported in the Daily Express FFS!

I mean i'm still waiting for that harsh winter that they predicted on their front page last autumn and thats the least of the inaccurate, misleading false truths they publish everyday!

A failing white elephant, yet the people who seem most opposed are mostly nationalistic, isolationist, racist xenophobes with closed minds and nasty little agendas rather akin to your own.

I doubt you laugh at my posts, you would need a sense of humour and a broad perspective to manage that, so far your posts have revealed you haven't got one nor a basic understanding of the facts!

Again you accuse me of being obsessed with being part of the EU...not true, but as always you pick out the bits that suit your agenda and ignore the truths that don't - try having a balanced view and you may find that life ain't so bad.

As for me I'm pissing myself at your lack of understanding of the issue and wonder how narrow minded one has to be to post the crap you do.

[Trickytreesreds]

What utter *******s you spout - the BBC may well be a liberal organisation, thank the **** for that but it hardly spouts propoganda, unless of course your a dimwit like yourself who believes the what is reported in the Daily Express FFS!

I mean i'm still waiting for that harsh winter that they predicted on their front page last autumn and thats the least of the inaccurate, misleading false truths they publish everyday!

A failing white elephant, yet the people who seem most opposed are mostly nationalistic, isolationist, racist xenophobes with closed minds and nasty little agendas rather akin to your own.

I doubt you laugh at my posts, you would need a sense of humour and a broad perspective to manage that, so far your posts have revealed you haven't got one nor a basic understanding of the facts!

Again you accuse me of being obsessed with being part of the EU...not true, but as always you pick out the bits that suit your agenda and ignore the truths that don't - try having a balanced view and you may find that life ain't so bad.

As for me I'm pissing myself at your lack of understanding of the issue and wonder how narrow minded one has to be to post the crap you do.

lol, hilarious.

Your bitterness and anger know no bounds Swale.
You ought to be an SNP politician, or a Quisling. It really is funny you know.

You never answered my question. Did you watch the BBC programme or what?
Did they tell lies or is the EU in trouble or not?


(sits on hands)

[DCFCArmy]

If they let us get out of Europe it'd be nice, we voted to leave by a 2-3m margin, and yet we've had some silly cow who wasn't even born here try to keep us from leaving ffs

And the less said about the bs that Trumps having to deal with the better, little liberal darlings can't lose without dignity, they now have their little judges holding up the process.

[ramAnag]

If they let us get out of Europe it'd be nice, we voted to leave by a 2-3m margin, and yet we've had some silly cow who wasn't even born here try to keep us from leaving ffs

And the less said about the bs that Trumps having to deal with the better, little liberal darlings can't lose without dignity, they now have their little judges holding up the process.

Oh dear. Who'd ever have guessed you'd be a 'Trumpeteer'?

[Andy_Faber]

Oh dear. Who'd ever have guessed you'd be a 'Trumpeteer'?

early candidate for 2017 word of the year!

[swaledale]

lol, hilarious.

Your bitterness and anger know no bounds Swale.
You ought to be an SNP politician, or a Quisling. It really is funny you know.

You never answered my question. Did you watch the BBC programme or what?
Did they tell lies or is the EU in trouble or not?


(sits on hands)

Your question was pointless, like your posts!

Angry and bitter? No rather sad that there are such stupid people who believe that the rise of far right politics and the break up of the Eu are good things and even stupider for thinking that you will benefit from this!

The facts, which clearly you would not be interested in, is that there is a lot about the Eu that requires change, but then that can be said about virtually every organisation created by and run by humans, we are after all fallable (even you) and that the Eu is not the cause of the problems you mention, you ignore the good that the Eu does, like keeping the peace in europe for over 50 years.

The Uk had a unique position in the Eu and benefitted whilst being able to resist or veto elements it did not want and as it evolves as it surely will, the Uk ws well placed to influence what happens.

However, none of this will sink in, just enjoy your phyrric victory, for that is what it is, the "Elites" will not suffer, but you and your fellow leavers surely will and me I will laugh as it all unfolds!

[ramAnag]

Have to say, haven't heard it all but, I agree with every word of what I have heard from Tony Blair on this subject this morning. Pity it takes a partially discredited and former PM to raise the issues and make the points that so desperately need to be made over our current lemming like plunge towards a 'hard' Brexit. I know he has made some mistakes, catastrophic ones too in the Middle East, but at least I was at last reminded of what a politician capable of joined up and grown up thought sounded like. Everything Corbyn should have been saying but hasn't imo.

[roger_ramjet]

Have to say, haven't heard it all but, I agree with every word of what I have heard from Tony Blair on this subject this morning. Pity it takes a partially discredited and former PM to raise the issues and make the points that so desperately need to be made over our current lemming like plunge towards a 'hard' Brexit. I know he has made some mistakes, catastrophic ones too in the Middle East, but at least I was at last reminded of what a politician capable of joined up and grown up thought sounded like. Everything Corbyn should have been saying but hasn't imo.

Well he was speaking to the pro Europe "Open Britain" group in the City and so he was to a large extent preaching to the converted: leastwise I dont suppose his speech changed anyone's mind who was there!

I have mixed feelings on this sort of thing. is it a positive contribution to the process or is it just another political has been trying to revive his public image (and indeed revenue stream) by being vaguely controvsial? if it is simply a has been profiteering then I think it is not useful, whether you agree with what he said or not. Brexits is not an appropriate forum for trying to get back into the limelight. its a bit like Ratty re-emerging from his dank lair and saying something contrary just so we dont forget he is still around!

We may or may not be heading lemming like over the cliff: who knows, but we (as in the majority of those who bothered to vote, and not including me) decided to head for Dover and now parliament has ratified the decision - you might say under duress - so what use would another vote be? You might say the same thing after every vote that has ever taken place - oooh lets do it again until we get the answer I want. If the Miss World competition had not fallen foul of political rectitude, then would we keep calling for a revote if our favoured girl did not win?

If we did go down the revote / check if you still want it vote after agreeing exit terms, how is that going to work? A change of heart would mean a colossal waste of time and money had occurred. The climb down would be nothing short of a national humiliation. Who is to say that the EU would even let us back in if we "changed our collective minds" after having negotiated an exit. If they did, how onerous would those remain/come back terms be, what might become of our special rebate? Would the revised "remain terms" then need another ratification vote? it could go on for ever.

I voted remain but with a divided mind. When we voted out I have accepted that view and embrace it, for good or evil. We cannot go on second guessing ourselves and prevaricating or we will still be in this no mans land ten years later with neither the espoused benefits of leaving nor those of staying actually being realised.

So in conclusion - I think Blair's tirade was not useful or constructive. he just wanted to get his face back in the press.

[roger_ramjet]

Have to say, haven't heard it all but, I agree with every word of what I have heard from Tony Blair on this subject this morning. Pity it takes a partially discredited and former PM to raise the issues and make the points that so desperately need to be made over our current lemming like plunge towards a 'hard' Brexit. I know he has made some mistakes, catastrophic ones too in the Middle East, but at least I was at last reminded of what a politician capable of joined up and grown up thought sounded like. Everything Corbyn should have been saying but hasn't imo.

Well he was speaking to the pro Europe "Open Britain" group in the City and so he was to a large extent preaching to the converted: leastwise I dont suppose his speech changed anyone's mind who was there!

I have mixed feelings on this sort of thing. is it a positive contribution to the process or is it just another political has been trying to revive his public image (and indeed revenue stream) by being vaguely controvsial? if it is simply a has been profiteering then I think it is not useful, whether you agree with what he said or not. Brexits is not an appropriate forum for trying to get back into the limelight. its a bit like Ratty re-emerging from his dank lair and saying something contrary just so we dont forget he is still around!

We may or may not be heading lemming like over the cliff: who knows, but we (as in the majority of those who bothered to vote, and not including me) decided to head for Dover and now parliament has ratified the decision - you might say under duress - so what use would another vote be? You might say the same thing after every vote that has ever taken place - oooh lets do it again until we get the answer I want. If the Miss World competition had not fallen foul of political rectitude, then would we keep calling for a revote if our favoured girl did not win?

If we did go down the revote / check if you still want it vote after agreeing exit terms, how is that going to work? A change of heart would mean a colossal waste of time and money had occurred. The climb down would be nothing short of a national humiliation. Who is to say that the EU would even let us back in if we "changed our collective minds" after having negotiated an exit. If they did, how onerous would those remain/come back terms be, what might become of our special rebate? Would the revised "remain terms" then need another ratification vote? it could go on for ever.

I voted remain but with a divided mind. When we voted out I have accepted that view and embrace it, for good or evil. We cannot go on second guessing ourselves and prevaricating or we will still be in this no mans land ten years later with neither the espoused benefits of leaving nor those of staying actually being realised.

So in conclusion - I think Blair's tirade was not useful or constructive. he just wanted to get his face back in the press.

[ramAnag]

Well he was speaking to the pro Europe "Open Britain" group in the City and so he was to a large extent preaching to the converted: leastwise I dont suppose his speech changed anyone's mind who was there!

I have mixed feelings on this sort of thing. is it a positive contribution to the process or is it just another political has been trying to revive his public image (and indeed revenue stream) by being vaguely controvsial? if it is simply a has been profiteering then I think it is not useful, whether you agree with what he said or not. Brexits is not an appropriate forum for trying to get back into the limelight. its a bit like Ratty re-emerging from his dank lair and saying something contrary just so we dont forget he is still around!

We may or may not be heading lemming like over the cliff: who knows, but we (as in the majority of those who bothered to vote, and not including me) decided to head for Dover and now parliament has ratified the decision - you might say under duress - so what use would another vote be? You might say the same thing after every vote that has ever taken place - oooh lets do it again until we get the answer I want. If the Miss World competition had not fallen foul of political rectitude, then would we keep calling for a revote if our favoured girl did not win?

If we did go down the revote / check if you still want it vote after agreeing exit terms, how is that going to work? A change of heart would mean a colossal waste of time and money had occurred. The climb down would be nothing short of a national humiliation. Who is to say that the EU would even let us back in if we "changed our collective minds" after having negotiated an exit. If they did, how onerous would those remain/come back terms be, what might become of our special rebate? Would the revised "remain terms" then need another ratification vote? it could go on for ever.

I voted remain but with a divided mind. When we voted out I have accepted that view and embrace it, for good or evil. We cannot go on second guessing ourselves and prevaricating or we will still be in this no mans land ten years later with neither the espoused benefits of leaving nor those of staying actually being realised.

So in conclusion - I think Blair's tirade was not useful or constructive. he just wanted to get his face back in the press.

Although I disagree with your conclusion I genuinely take your points RR. As I've said before, I have reservations about the electorate being capable of making decisions on matters of such complexity in a second more detailed referendum, but we really have, imo, reached the point where steps are being taken/recommended that transcend even what many Brexiteers voted for. The warning signs are all there, someone has to make the 'wake up' call before it's too late and if that's Blair then so be it.

[AdiSalisbury]

Its a shame the EU couldn't stop Blair sanctioning the destabilisation of the middle east and the loss of so many innocent lives, whether they were innocent civilians caught up in the crossfire, or soldiers fighting a war based on one massive lie. His track record shows him as an egoist, I can't digest a single word he says without having grave doubts to the credibility of his information or the biased twist he perpetuates.

[roger_ramjet]

Mangara: we all know that the ignorant masses should never have been allowed to take part in such a portentous decision (and I count myself as ignorant too before anyone accuses me of being elitist) but someone made the promise so the scene was set then. In a perfect world the exit terms should have been negotiated before any vote was taken - but that is something that the EU would not permit as negotiations could only take place once Article 50 was triggered and our course set.

We were and are stuck between a rock and a hard place - and the more we struggle, the more it hurts

[ramAnag]

Of course he's an egoist Adi, he's a politician...it goes with the territory. Don't tell me you don't think the same about Gove, Johnson and Farage. Doesn't mean he's always wrong though. Paul Nuttall actually said something I agree with today...about VAT on fuel but I still think he's a totally dishonest and egotistical halfwit the vast majority of the time.

Roger...if we don't 'struggle' - or at least question, isn't there a danger that we just compound one error with another, all in the misplaced name of democracy?