OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[MadAmster]

Just a few specifics......

Duty free. Citizens travelling back to the EU from the UK have a greater tax free allowance than people travelling to the UK from the EU.

Buying online. If I buy online from a UK seller, I pay no VAT on goods with a value of €22 or less. Over €22 I pay 21% VAT on the combined cost of the item and the postage costs. I pay no import duty on goods worth €150 or less.
If I sell to a UK buyer, the buyer now pays VAT on everything, cost price plus postage. Not sure on import duty.

I will still buy 45s I want from UK sellers but the chance of selling to a UK buyer has greatly diminished due to the extra tax/duty costs.

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh no, Owens upset and coming to get us,

Hark at her.................

Even the Guardian had enough of this muppet lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFolxXvD8dE&ab_channel=ExArmyPaz49

[Andy_Faber]

Just a few specifics......

Duty free. Citizens travelling back to the EU from the UK have a greater tax free allowance than people travelling to the UK from the EU.

Buying online. If I buy online from a UK seller, I pay no VAT on goods with a value of €22 or less. Over €22 I pay 21% VAT on the combined cost of the item and the postage costs. I pay no import duty on goods worth €150 or less.
If I sell to a UK buyer, the buyer now pays VAT on everything, cost price plus postage. Not sure on import duty.

I will still buy 45s I want from UK sellers but the chance of selling to a UK buyer has greatly diminished due to the extra tax/duty costs.

agree on that (the numbers), having been discussing with a rock'n'roll collector/trader. However, the EU issue is dwarfed by the taxes/duties recently applicable to purchases from USA which have, to quote my pal, 'gone supersonic'

[Andy_Faber]

Ah yes Eurosceptic well spotted.

Its true that people get they tend get more conservative as they get older, though obviously this is a generalisation and peoples experiences do tend to shape their later lives the more people travel and understand that isolation is counter productive, then the more they understand what a mistake Brexit is.

So whilst the generation that follows will be more conservative, they will also be less conservative than the current one.

There is of course one flaw in your argument, the result of the referendum was very close,, just over 52% of those that voted, were in favour and that out of 37% of those who could vote.

Now its a fair assumption that more of the older population voted and that more of those who wanted Brexit voted, so that does indicate that there are in fact a large number of the older generation who aren't conservative eurosceptics. In fact if only more of the younger generation (the one's you inaccurately describe as "sold-a-dream") had voted, then the result would more than likely been a solid remain!

So Looking at the facts, I'd say that there is no weakness in my argument, at least not along the lines you have described.

By the way I would say that free movement in europe, being able to work, study or live anywhere within the EU was not a dream, but reality for many! As were the many economic benefits that they and of course the rest of the UK enjoyed, still I'm sure the left behind who voted will enjoy working in the fields picking vegetables, working in cafes and hotels and bars, in care homes and in factories as they live the Brexit dream!

thanks for a reasoned, insult free response for a change (although I do see you've reverted to type elsewhere)

Yes there are weaknesses in your argument, the main one (see your second para) being that you assume the population will continue along what for the past few decades appeared superficially to be a more tolerant, inclusive path. My observation is that a lot of folk have either become less tolerant in recent years, or they never were tolerant and have been emboldened by the emergence of others like them mainly on social media. Its an observation not a rallying call.

In one respect, you are spot-on, if more of the 'sold a dreams' had actually voted Remain instead of, for instance, chosen to go to Glastonbury, waved a placard saying 'Vote Remain' and then NOT voted, we wouldn't be in this mess. Now, please tell me, who's being thicker, someone who voted Leave or someone with the power to stop them who didn't exercise that power? I think we've finally found your thick people Swale

[Trickytreesreds]

What is interesting to me Andy, is the argument perceived, that the older generation who ****ed this up with the vote.
Those same voters, were the ones who were "conned", just like my parents were in 1974 by believing the lies, they were told. This vote is just to remain in the "common market", as free trade is all we want. Heath knew the truth and hid it in the official archives. At no point was anyone told of the goal of ever closer union. He knew dammed well, no one would vote for it, if exposed.

http://www.theeuroprobe.org/2012-029/

So are the "young" today being conned, or are they just as gullible as my parents generation was, by believing the EU is wonderful?

Lies it seems, depends on who's telling them.

[swaledale]

What is interesting to me Andy, is the argument perceived, that the older generation who ****ed this up with the vote.
Those same voters, were the ones who were "conned", just like my parents were in 1974 by believing the lies, they were told. This vote is just to remain in the "common market", as free trade is all we want. Heath knew the truth and hid it in the official archives. At no point was anyone told of the goal of ever closer union. He knew dammed well, no one would vote for it, if exposed.

http://www.theeuroprobe.org/2012-029/

So are the "young" today being conned, or are they just as gullible as my parents generation was, by believing the EU is wonderful?

Lies it seems, depends on who's telling them.

Its no surprise that you have got it wrong, seeing as you have great difficulty establishing facts relevant to today never mind historical ones.


In point of fact the European Community was presented as more than a trade agreement in the last vote.

During the 1975 campaign, membership of the European Community was presented by both the government and the Conservative opposition as relevant to peace, security, and both regional and international development, as well as to trade and economic cooperation.

In 1975 the government set out the aims of the European Community as bringing “together the peoples of Europe”, raising living standards and improving working conditions, promoting growth and boosting world trade. They also set out that the EC would “help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world” and “help maintain peace and freedom”.

In their October 1974 manifesto, the Conservative party outlined the two key ideas behind the EEC as being to maintain security within Europe and to allow European influence in the world, and control over its own affairs, to grow in a world of polarised superpowers.


I really wasn't going to bother responding to you again, given that most of what you post is utter lies and falsehoods gleaned from dubious internet sources, but it doesn't do to let factual inaccuracies go unchallenged.

Though as has been said, none of the goons who voted for Brexit will take any notice, after all they live in a fantasy land where their miserable lives are someone else's fault!

But **** 'em is my moto!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Or is that Butt.....

[Trickytreesreds]

Its no surprise that you have got it wrong, seeing as you have great difficulty establishing facts relevant to today never mind historical ones.


In point of fact the European Community was presented as more than a trade agreement in the last vote.

During the 1975 campaign, membership of the European Community was presented by both the government and the Conservative opposition as relevant to peace, security, and both regional and international development, as well as to trade and economic cooperation.

In 1975 the government set out the aims of the European Community as bringing “together the peoples of Europe”, raising living standards and improving working conditions, promoting growth and boosting world trade. They also set out that the EC would “help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world” and “help maintain peace and freedom”.

In their October 1974 manifesto, the Conservative party outlined the two key ideas behind the EEC as being to maintain security within Europe and to allow European influence in the world, and control over its own affairs, to grow in a world of polarised superpowers.


I really wasn't going to bother responding to you again, given that most of what you post is utter lies and falsehoods gleaned from dubious internet sources, but it doesn't do to let factual inaccuracies go unchallenged.

Though as has been said, none of the goons who voted for Brexit will take any notice, after all they live in a fantasy land where their miserable lives are someone else's fault!

But **** 'em is my moto!

I'm touched Swale, that is the nicest response you've ever penned.

Again, lies are in the eye of the beholder. De Gaulle twice rejected GB membership on the grounds that the Brits were not of the same spirit of Europe.
He was actually quite correct in the assumption that a Brit native, would never knowingly surrender his sovereignty to a new regime in Europe. Heath knew it as well. So the propaganda began, where we went from a trading agreement, to fully a functioning political set up, hell bent on a federal system.

So again, I'll say it. Had that been said up front in 1974 you would have never kept our membership going. Those that had that con forced on them, had to wait 40 odd years to correct it. Here's hoping you moaners get the same curtosy,
Happy new year my Lord.

[swaledale]

thanks for a reasoned, insult free response for a change (although I do see you've reverted to type elsewhere)

Yes there are weaknesses in your argument, the main one (see your second para) being that you assume the population will continue along what for the past few decades appeared superficially to be a more tolerant, inclusive path. My observation is that a lot of folk have either become less tolerant in recent years, or they never were tolerant and have been emboldened by the emergence of others like them mainly on social media. Its an observation not a rallying call.

In one respect, you are spot-on, if more of the 'sold a dreams' had actually voted Remain instead of, for instance, chosen to go to Glastonbury, waved a placard saying 'Vote Remain' and then NOT voted, we wouldn't be in this mess. Now, please tell me, who's being thicker, someone who voted Leave or someone with the power to stop them who didn't exercise that power? I think we've finally found your thick people Swale

I only revert to type when confronted by complete *******s, I find arguing with people who believe hogwash pointless, best point out how thick they are!

Oh I don't disagree that those who didn't vote in the referendum have only themselves to blame, there was I think an air of complacency, a majority didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to vote leave, the lies being told were so obvious that they thought most would see through them. Now many have woken up to the fact that if they want something they need to do something about it. They will but it will take time. Not sure complacency means thick but you may use a different dictionary to me.


As for your observation about less tolerance, yes right wing populist politicians and agitators have stirred up people and emboldened some to show their true colours - the mere fact that 70 million voted for Trump demonstrated that even after witnessing 4 years of an incompetent, lying, self obsessed, bull****ter as a president shows that there are many less tolerant people out there, though one must remember that many (as in our own Johnson) are not necessarily true believers but will do or say what they think will get them/keep them power.

And yes Right Wing populists do a simple trick, they appeal to the base instincts of people, take advantage of people's often genuine grievances and use those to further their own agenda and obtain power.

Again if one looks back in history, there are a number of examples where this is politically successful, at least for a limited period - I refer to Hitler often, its the more extreme example of how in a crisis even reasonable people will latch onto and support someone who spouts simplistic victim blaming. Until of course it all goes to **** - but millions of "good German's" voted Hitler into power and explicitly supported him, millions actually took part in a war.

I always think its ironic when people lambast Islamists for killing others when so many Christians did the same in wars, but thats a side issue.

But one really has to be little dim not to the falseness of the nationalist right’s claim to offer such an alternative, and the cosy relationship it actually enjoys with the establishment. Many far-right leaders have received generous financial support from the capitalist class, even as their rhetoric branded that class as part of the hated “globalists.”

In the case of Trump, the alliance with the establishment has been even more blatant, with a capitalist directly entering the field while presenting himself as a champion of workers. One could even describe the Trumpian right as the emergency boat that the capitalist class prepared for itself in case the yacht of neoliberalism foundered, necessitating a more authoritarian turn to ensure a “business-friendly environment.”

Yes your correct, there are many people, who brandish words like "the pc brigade" who lap up politicians who seem to them to understand their views (whilst in reality having nothing but scorn for them), there are equally many people who despite the evidence seem to believe that given a chance Corbyn would have won an election and that a socialist nirvana was within reach. But there are also millions of people who whilst they may have some concerns, are generally decent enough to know that fairness, diversity and equality are worth striving for and theres a balance to be struck somewhere.

There will be something, Coivd-19 might just be that thing, (for what its worth Farage trying to rally support against lockdowns may well be the start of his inevitable decline into obscurity), that will shift people's opinion and perhaps the reality of the UK (should it remain as the UK) as an isolated state with no real power in the world and a faltering economy, that will shift opinion back again.

[swaledale]

I'm touched Swale, that is the nicest response you've ever penned.

Again, lies are in the eye of the beholder. De Gaulle twice rejected GB membership on the grounds that the Brits were not of the same spirit of Europe.
He was actually quite correct in the assumption that a Brit native, would never knowingly surrender his sovereignty to a new regime in Europe. Heath knew it as well. So the propaganda began, where we went from a trading agreement, to fully a functioning political set up, hell bent on a federal system.

So again, I'll say it. Had that been said up front in 1974 you would have never kept our membership going. Those that had that con forced on them, had to wait 40 odd years to correct it. Here's hoping you moaners get the same curtosy,
Happy new year my Lord.

I knew you were thick, but clearly you also lack comprehension. Never mind I'm sure you realise that the far right populists that you think are anti establishment are actually part of the establishment and don't give a **** about you or your life, as long as like the dum **** you are, you vote obediently wehn required!

You would have been a "good" German and then denied that it had anything to do with you. I only voted for Mein Führer!

[Trickytreesreds]

I knew you were thick, but clearly you also lack comprehension. Never mind I'm sure you realise that the far right populists that you think are anti establishment are actually part of the establishment and don't give a **** about you or your life, as long as like the dum **** you are, you vote obediently wehn required!

You would have been a "good" German and then denied that it had anything to do with you. I only voted for Mein Führer!

That's better. Abusive , know all Swale is what we expect here. The whole world is thick and wrong if they don't agree with you.
Very apt you mention Germany. Under the Third Reich, you would have done very well. I vud hav been shot vor dis.

Democracy doesn't do very well in your world Swale. Mayybe it's why you love the EU so much. They don't agree with it either.

Still even you have benefitted from Brexit.
They have removed the tax on sanitary products imposed on us by the EU. So even a c**t like you can get padded up, far cheaper now. lol

[swaledale]

That's better. Abusive , know all Swale is what we expect here. The whole world is thick and wrong if they don't agree with you.
Very apt you mention Germany. Under the Third Reich, you would have done very well. I vud hav been shot vor dis.

Democracy doesn't do very well in your world Swale. Maybe it's why you love the EU so much. They don't agree with it either.

Still even you have benefitted from Brexit.
They have removed the tax on sanitary products imposed on us by the EU. So even a c**t like you can get padded up, far cheaper now. lol

Oh dear your not very bright are you? if it was the EU rather than this Tory Government who voted against it that prevented the Uk from scrapping the tax on women's sanitary items, is there no tax in the Republic of Ireland?

No the only people I think are thick are people like yourself, who just spout crap they read from right wing sources and swallow the lies peddled by right wing rich elites.

You do i suppose understand how misogynist your comment shows you to be?

So a bigot, racist, fascist, ignorant, misogynist, thick, lets hope your activities in Thailand don't come to light

[Andy_Faber]

If the insult throwing doesn’t stop I’ll lock the thread and that would be a shame. Back to reasoned discussion with occasional disdain and sarcasm please chaps

[Manofpride]

Oh dear your not very bright are you? if it was the EU rather than this Tory Government who voted against it that prevented the Uk from scrapping the tax on women's sanitary items, is there no tax in the Republic of Ireland?

No the only people I think are thick are people like yourself, who just spout crap they read from right wing sources and swallow the lies peddled by right wing rich elites.

You do i suppose understand how misogynist your comment shows you to be?

So a bigot, racist, fascist, ignorant, misogynist, thick, lets hope your activities in Thailand don't come to light

It Snowed Last Night

8:00 am: I made a snowman.

8:10 - A feminist passed by and asked me why I didn't make a snow woman.

8:15 - So, I made a snow woman.

8:17 - My feminist neighbour complained about the snow woman's voluptuous chest saying it objectified snow women everywhere.

8:20 - The gay couple living nearby threw a hissy fit and moaned it could have been two snow men instead.

8:22 - The transgender man..women...person asked why I didn't just make one snow person with detachable parts.

8:25 - The vegans at the end of the lane complained about the carrot nose, as veggies are food and not to decorate snow figures with.

8:28 - I was being called a racist because the snow couple is white.

8:31 - The middle eastern gent across the road demanded the snow woman be covered up.

8:40 - The Police arrived saying someone had been offended.

8:42 - The feminist neighbour complained again that the broomstick of the snow woman needed to be removed because it depicted women in a domestic role.

8:43 - The council equality officer arrived and threatened me with eviction.

8:45 - TV news crews from BBC, ITV, CNN and SKY showed up. I was asked if I know the difference between snowmen and snow-women?
I replied "Snowballs" and am now called a ***ist.

9:00 - I was on the News as a suspected terrorist, racist, homophobe sensibility offender, bent on stirring up trouble during difficult weather.

9:10 - I was asked if I have any accomplices. My children were taken by social services.

9:29 - Far left protesters offended by everything marched down the street demanding for me to be arrested.

By Noon it had all melted

Moral:
There is no moral to this story.
It is exactly what we have become.....all caused by Snowflakes.
God help us! ☃️❄��

[Andy_Faber]

Liking that MOP although I’m sure you missed some other offended folk somewhere