OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[MadAmster]

How to get a non-Tory government in one easy lesson.

Whichever opposition party promises to reinstate the protections will walk the next election.

[Andy_Faber]

Swale, there’s one on that list that as a practitioner of and revenue earner from it I know to be complete bo-locks. That of course calls into question the whole list, which makes you the spreader of potentially fake news

[swaledale]

Swale, there’s one on that list that as a practitioner of and revenue earner from it I know to be complete bo-locks. That of course calls into question the whole list, which makes you the spreader of potentially fake news

EH? Thats why I added the comment to that effect. BUT you are astute enough to now that the way such people operate is to propose really outlandish and false propositions and then whilst people get all agitated over that, the true agenda, which is often equally damaging is promoted and gains traction.

One only has to observe how Trump has operated, to understand how this works, (he has people believing that the US election was a fraud) indeed the Brexit vote was won by that very means, spout stuff that is either obviously fake, then somehow people swallow it, think its true and the real agenda is overlooked.

[swaledale]

How to get a non-Tory government in one easy lesson.

Whichever opposition party promises to reinstate the protections will walk the next election.

Yet they relected a Tory government that imposed the cuts on the health and public services that have contributed to the pandemic being worse that it need have been, they swallowed the lie that the Labour Party was responsible for the global 2008 financial crisis, your faith in voters is touching.

[AdiSalisbury]

Lemmings don't jump off cliffs, it's *******s.

[Geoff Parkstone]

And so the pressure to strip us of rights and protections, that will benefit only the rich and leave the country, the environment and the people worse off begins.

A leading Tory credited with inspiring Brexit has urged Boris Johnson to cull a raft of EU consumer and worker protections, now the UK has the freedom to act.

Safeguards for the use of data, pay and conditions, GM foods, hedge funds, dangerous chemicals and the disposal of environmentally-damaging vehicles should all be binned, Daniel Hannan said.

“Change is coming. To succeed outside the EU, we need to be fitter, leaner and more globally engaged,” said the former MEP, who has just been made a Conservative peer.

The call comes after the prime minister vowed to start breaking free from EU rules, now the post-Brexit transition period has is over, saying “we have nothing to fear”.

Under the trade agreement he signed, Brussels has the power to inflict wide-ranging tariffs or other sanctions on the UK if it breaches the so-called ‘level playing field’.

Nevertheless, Mr Hannon, in a website article, called for the scrapping of:

* the Temporary Workers’ Directive – which guarantees agency staff receive equal pay and conditions with employees in the same business.

* the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) – that gives individuals control over their personal data and limits its transfer to other countries.

* the ban on products made from genetically modified (GM) crops – potentially allowing US food derived that way into the UK, as part of a future trade deal.

* the REACH Directive – to outlaw chemicals linked to health problems including cancer, thyroid disease, hormone disruption and slow development.

* the End of Life Vehicles Directive – to achieve environmentally-friendly dismantling and recycling, with targets for the reuse of vehicles and their components.

* the Alternative Investment Fund Managers Directive (AIFMD) – introduced to regulate hedge funds and private equity following the 2008 financial crash.

* the ‘Droit de suite’ rules – that pay artists a fee on the resale of their works of art, instead of the American ‘first-sale doctrine’ that removes rights from subsequent sales.

* “chunks of” the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive (MiFID II) – the legal framework to harmonise regulation of securities markets and trading venues.

Mr Hannan is widely seen as an intellectual driving force from the 1990s for what became as Brexit, pushing for a clean break from the EU as a campaigner and then a Euro-MP.

In the article, for the conservativehome website, he argued that – in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic – everything possible must be done to “stimulate growth”.

That included ripping up “regulatory barriers”, targeting “everything from planning restrictions that inflate the cost of housing, to staff ratio rules that give us the most expensive childcare in Europe”.

His assertions contain some many falsehoods and lies its hard to know where to start. However I'm sure our esteemed Brexit supporters will welcome these proposals, like lemmings welcome leaping off a cliff!

Sadly you are beginning to sound like a broken record here, every mere suggestion that you disagree with is riddled with lies and falsehoods.

So one non elected voice in the Lords may have suggested changes in these areas. If they ever get adopted as official policy and any progress is made towards amending them to the detriment of the protection of consumer rights, then we can get concerned.

But fo now a lone voice spouting "extremist" changes post Brexit is just that - and as has already been pointed out, the legitimacy of your facts is already in question.

Just sounds like a bitter remoaner trying to find something new to moan about as a result of us leaving, now the primary battle has been lost. When and if any of this comes to pass, there may be a concern - but for now its just remoaner scaremongering in my view

[ramAnag]

Seems to me increasingly difficult to know quite what is what.
Swale has always seemed the best informed as regards the implications of Brexit on here to me...but few, possibly except me, take any notice anymore because of his reputation, as was reinforced earlier, for periodic alarmingly Trump like rants.
GP, on the other hand, knows more than most about the financial consequences but is himself like the ‘broken record’ he accuses others of being with his constant references to ‘bitter remoaners’ and ‘remoaner scaremongering’ etc every time anyone challenges his pro-Tory view.
Oh well...I suppose at least this forum can be said to truly reflect the sad state of our horribly divided nation. Pity.

[Andy_Faber]

Seems to me increasingly difficult to know quite what is what.
Swale has always seemed the best informed as regards the implications of Brexit on here to me...but few, possibly except me, take any notice anymore because of his reputation, as was reinforced earlier, for periodic alarmingly Trump like rants.
GP, on the other hand, knows more than most about the financial consequences but is himself like the ‘broken record’ he accuses others of being with his constant references to ‘bitter remoaners’ and ‘remoaner scaremongering’ etc every time anyone challenges his pro-Tory view.
Oh well...I suppose at least this forum can be said to truly reflect the sad state of our horribly divided nation. Pity.

It’s a shame we’ve lost mista, a voice of reason.

As you say though, division rules all over the world and we just reflect it. I still blame the (non-social) media for amplifying what should be minor irritations into major issues just to justify its collective existence, driving basically reasonable folk towards one point of the worldview compass or the other - not afraid to say I have my moments but millions have IMO moved even further into entrenchment.

[Ram59]

Seems to me increasingly difficult to know quite what is what.
Swale has always seemed the best informed as regards the implications of Brexit on here to me...but few, possibly except me, take any notice anymore because of his reputation, as was reinforced earlier, for periodic alarmingly Trump like rants.
GP, on the other hand, knows more than most about the financial consequences but is himself like the ‘broken record’ he accuses others of being with his constant references to ‘bitter remoaners’ and ‘remoaner scaremongering’ etc every time anyone challenges his pro-Tory view.
Oh well...I suppose at least this forum can be said to truly reflect the sad state of our horribly divided nation. Pity.

Yes he always seemed to be the best informed, how did we know that, because he told us of course. He spouts stuff far beyond our knowledge, knowing that none of us can argue against his 'knowledge', but over time his rants include some obvious falsehoods which he also claims to be gospel. So if some of what he claims is rubbish, then probably his 'expert knowledge' is also rubbish.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Seems to me increasingly difficult to know quite what is what.
Swale has always seemed the best informed as regards the implications of Brexit on here to me...but few, possibly except me, take any notice anymore because of his reputation, as was reinforced earlier, for periodic alarmingly Trump like rants.
GP, on the other hand, knows more than most about the financial consequences but is himself like the ‘broken record’ he accuses others of being with his constant references to ‘bitter remoaners’ and ‘remoaner scaremongering’ etc every time anyone challenges his pro-Tory view.
Oh well...I suppose at least this forum can be said to truly reflect the sad state of our horribly divided nation. Pity.

OOOOH you know how to cut to the quick rA, accusing me of pro tory sentiment! My comment above concerning the spoutings of an extreme tory "loony" with no effective authority can hardly be said to be pro tory. Equally my pro government observations as regards covid etc are no pro tory, but pro government. No other party has been in government during covid to compare balls ups with, admittedly!

[ramAnag]

Yes he always seemed to be the best informed, how did we know that, because he told us of course. He spouts stuff far beyond our knowledge, knowing that none of us can argue against his 'knowledge', but over time his rants include some obvious falsehoods which he also claims to be gospel. So if some of what he claims is rubbish, then probably his 'expert knowledge' is also rubbish.

Some of what we all write is a mixture of well informed and rubbish, imo, Ram.
You and I probably differ over Swale because I tend to agree with him and you, politically speaking, invariably disagree with him.
His tragedy, again imo, is that he is well informed but alienates people so no one listens.

At some point people like you and I, from different sides of the political ‘fence’ but usually able to debate civilly, have to find more common ground. The alternative is the scenes we saw in Washington last night - instigated largely by the increasingly deranged outgoing President - being replicated across the UK.

[ramAnag]

OOOOH you know how to cut to the quick rA, accusing me of pro tory sentiment! My comment above concerning the spoutings of an extreme tory "loony" with no effective authority can hardly be said to be pro tory. Equally my pro government observations as regards covid etc are no pro tory, but pro government. No other party has been in government during covid to compare balls ups with, admittedly!

No other Party has been in Government for approaching eleven years, GP. I’ll cut Cameron some slack given the crisis he inherited (from bankers) but only as regards that. Beyond that it probably explains a lot.

My point was that whatever the faults of Government those who dare to point them out are invariably subjected to repetitive ridicule from you, i.e. ‘it’s all Johnson’s fault’, ‘remoaners’, ‘triumphalist’ etc. Lots of ridicule but seldom a reasoned response.

P.S. Interesting that you see mista as ‘the voice of reason’, AF. I agree, he’s a great loss...but, where Brexit is concerned he could always be counted on as one of the most committed Remainers, and as someone who ran his own business almost certainly knew what he was talking about.

[Geoff Parkstone]

and its no coincidence that Cameron was a remainer!

I think I would describe myself as apolitical - I actually detest both main parties and regard neither of them as worthy of my support, I regard the libdems as a waste of space leaving just the greens (whose policies are probably to the left of Corbyn in many cases) to win my vote: which they do. You could characterise this as a safe protest vote, and in many ways it is, although I do agree with many of their environmental policies. Beyond that my choice is restricted to various lunatic fringe parties.

So no, I am not pro Tory, although I am pro some of their policies, which I might also be under a Starmer led Labour, asopposed to Corbyn who, like Swale, has alienated much of his own support and damaged "his party" intensely,

On the other hand I defend the government (and probably would do whoever was in power - except Corbyn) simply because they have had not one poisoned chalice to deal with (Brexit) but then an even more poisoned one in COVID. Brexit was an apolitical decision and it fell on a Tory government to put it into effect, often against the wishes of many of their MP's and indeed supporters. My assessment of the deals carved out are thus viewed in this context. Would have been interesting to see what sort of deal would have been drawn up if a different coloured parliament was negotiating it. Whoever is having to make decisions will get the criticism of the other side.

Re COVID the government make mistakes and change their minds as would anyone in the face of an unknown "enemy" where noone has a model to follow and policy is made on the hoof, but I see no point slavishy hammering them for their every move. Again COVID response should be apolitical, not a sniping opportunity.

I remember many moons ago I was advocating a government of national unity to deal with Brexit, and COVID response would have benefitted greatly from being cross party as it would eliminate the political swipes. Not sure the response would have been any different, but maybe better informed and communicated

[ramAnag]

You. ‘Apolitical’! Lol. Can only believe you don’t know the meaning of the word. You MAY be ‘unaffiliated’ although I struggle to believe that nowadays. More likely to believe it about your previous incarnation but there is no way you are ‘apolitical’.

Completely with you as regards a ‘Government of National Unity’...in fact if you go back four plus years to the early days of MoP’s Brexit thread it’s what I advocated then.

[Geoff Parkstone]

apolitical - not interested or involved in politics.

Have never been involved in it, and my interest is only limited to a general sense of contempt towards most practitioners of it

perhaps I am apolitician ??!